Universal Background Checks

[m16ty]

On 8/21/2019 at 6:40 AM, DaveTN said:

 

I know its not a popular opinion to some here, but as responsible gun owners we have a moral and ethical obligation to do what we can to keep firearms out of the hands of people that would hurt innocent victims. I’m not saying Universal Background checks will do that; I’m saying we have a responsibility to do what we can.

 

I agree. If I'm selling a gun and I don't personally know the person or at least know somebody that knows them, they better have a HCP they can show me. If I don't know or know of them, I'm not selling a gun to them without them proving to me they have at least passed a background check with showing their HCP. I know I don't legally have to do that, but I would hate for a gun I sold somebody to be used in a crime.

[Omega]

9 hours ago, m16ty said:

I agree. If I'm selling a gun and I don't personally know the person or at least know somebody that knows them, they better have a HCP they can show me. If I don't know or know of them, I'm not selling a gun to them without them proving to me they have at least passed a background check with showing their HCP. I know I don't legally have to do that, but I would hate for a gun I sold somebody to be used in a crime.

I rarely sell or trade guns, can probably count them on one hand, but I don't keep up with where they went after I make the trade or sale.  Same as I don't keep track of the vehicles I've owned to see if a drunk killed someone with it.  I won't sell or trade any weapons to anyone that I am suspicious of, for my safety as well as others, but just because they do not have an HCP does not automatically disqualify them with me.  If there was a way to do a BC with no cost to both parties, I'd use it, Communities such as this can give you a good feel about someone, but that does not mean one of us will not go off the deep end, and BC or HCP will not guarantee that as well.  

I don't see anyone trying to give us any incentives to use BG checks, or submit ourselves to scrutiny by getting an HCP, more like they want to create more hurdles for the ownership of guns.  If they cared, they would exempt anyone with an HCP from having to pay for another BC check everytime we get a new gun.  Maybe exempt us from sales tax for the next gun purchase when you voluntarily submit to a BC check on a private sale, shoot, even a free box of ammo or something.  But no, they want to put legal restrictions on the folks that are already following the law, which are the only ones that will follow new ones.  I can surely guess there will be many that will not do a BG check if/when this becomes mandatory, making criminals out of law abiding citizens.

[AuEagle]

"making criminals out of law abiding citizens."

That's it in a nut shell.

[bersaguy]

I like many view the UBC's as nothing more than a backdoor gun registry but how many here don't think that every time a person buys a gun from a gun dealer and goes through all the back ground checks and does everything by the book that the record of that purchased has not already been put in a  registry right then in some Federal computer somewhere anyway? I would be willing to bet there is a secret registery somewhere and has been probably at least since Columbine and maybe earlier. I know they didn't have that kind of capability when Charles Whitman shot all those people in 1966 but things have changed a lot since those days. If a day ever comes that they do go after a legal gun owner that all at once comes up on the Fed radar  as a possible furure mass shooter and they raid the persons home with a list of firearms they are looking for, what happens when they are looking for 15 guns but he only has 10. That would pretty much prove there is a registry somewhere huh?.............JMHO

[DaveTN]

4 hours ago, bersaguy said:

I would be willing to bet there is a secret registery somewhere and has been probably at least since Columbine and maybe earlier.

If there was a “secret” registry somewhere wouldn’t that be a violation of both State and Federal law? And wouldn’t those responsible be subject to arrest and imprisonment on both State, and Federal charges?

[eRay]

3 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

If there was a “secret” registry somewhere wouldn’t that be a violation of both State and Federal law? And wouldn’t those responsible be subject to arrest and imprisonment on both State, and Federal charges?

It would if it wasn't the government doing it.

[DaveTN]

6 minutes ago, Eray said:

It would if it wasn't the government doing it.

The government doesn’t have immunity on criminal charges. Also, the Feds can’t pardon someone on State charges and vice-versa.

Ha, Ha, Ha, I’m just throwing that out. I understand that if someone believes that government officials can do whatever they want; no amount of discussion will change that; but its fun. 

[AuEagle]

[eRay]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

The government doesn’t have immunity on criminal charges. Also, the Feds can’t pardon someone on State charges and vice-versa.

Ha, Ha, Ha, I’m just throwing that out. I understand that if someone believes that government officials can do whatever they want; no amount of discussion will change that; but its fun. 

I don't believe that government officials can do whatever they want. I do believe that a lot of them believe they can do whatever they want. Therein lies the problem.

[bersaguy]

18 hours ago, DaveTN said:

If there was a “secret” registry somewhere wouldn’t that be a violation of both State and Federal law? And wouldn’t those responsible be subject to arrest and imprisonment on both State, and Federal charges?

I have come to the conclusion that the Federal Government employee in the law enforcement don't feel they are breaking any laws till they get caught. Comey is a prime example of that. There is not any doubt in my mind that there are states that have a private registry on gun purchases. States like California and New York and several other states up in the East Coast in New England. I heard a police officer one time on the news say it sure would be nice when we go to serve a warrant what we might be going up against before we get there.  I can see his point to a point but if he is that worried about doing his job he need to find work doing something else.  If a law enforcement officer is going out to serve a warrant on someone it is not a warrant for attending Sunday School at the local church so all I can say is go prepared for the worst and hope for the best. .................JMHO

[DaveTN]

10 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I have come to the conclusion that the Federal Government employee in the law enforcement don't feel they are breaking any laws till they get caught. Comey is a prime example of that. There is not any doubt in my mind that there are states that have a private registry on gun purchases. States like California and New York and several other states up in the East Coast in New England. I heard a police officer one time on the news say it sure would be nice when we go to serve a warrant what we might be going up against before we get there.  I can see his point to a point but if he is that worried about doing his job he need to find work doing something else.  If a law enforcement officer is going out to serve a warrant on someone it is not a warrant for attending Sunday School at the local church so all I can say is go prepared for the worst and hope for the best. .................JMHO

I know there are departments that now have call history to alert them to previous problems at a house; I can see where that would be a great thing to have.

I may be naive, but I just can’t see anyone, especially someone in LE risking going to prison over an illegal database. There is just nothing there for them to gain. I guess it’s possible, but more than one person would have to be willing to do it.

[DaveTN]

Of course if Corey Booker were to get elected all that would change; according to him. It’s a good thing he’s a clown and we don’t have to worry about him getting elected.

Regardless of what you think will happen in Tennessee; please go vote.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cory-booker-plans-national-gun-registry

[bersaguy]

19 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Of course if Corey Booker were to get elected all that would change; according to him. It’s a good thing he’s a clown and we don’t have to worry about him getting elected.

Regardless of what you think will happen in Tennessee; please go vote.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cory-booker-plans-national-gun-registry

"Regardless of what you think will happen in Tennessee; please go vote".

Oh believe me my friend, that is one Constitutional Right I never fail to use to it's fullest extent. I do vote, most times in early voting.

I saw on the news yesterday where the officers went to serve a warrant and it ended up with a standoff and shots fired the police finally drove and Armored vehicle into the house and set off two smoke bombs and took the two people into custody with not further incidents. That is an example of officers possibly needing to know ahead of time what they may be walking into..............JMHO

Edited August 24, 2019 by bersaguy

[DaveTN]

3 hours ago, bersaguy said:

"Regardless of what you think will happen in Tennessee; please go vote".

Oh believe me my friend, that is one Constitutional Right I never fail to use to it's fullest extent. I do vote, most times in early voting.

I saw on the news yesterday where the officers went to serve a warrant and it ended up with a standoff and shots fired the police finally drove and Armored vehicle into the house and set off two smoke bombs and took the two people into custody with not further incidents. That is an example of officers possibly needing to know ahead of time what they may be walking into..............JMHO

It’s nice to be able to be prepared for anything; some departments can afford it; some can’t. I remember when some folks were up in arms about PD’s getting surplus armored vehicles from the Military. What in the world could a local PD need an armored vehicle for they asked. Well…. the people trapped in the bathrooms at Pulse Nightclub are alive because a Bearcat breeched the wall, allowed them to get out and Officers to get in and end the massacre. We live in a time of local cops needing armored vehicles, Explosives, and Barrett .50 Cal rifles.

[bersaguy]

2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

It’s nice to be able to be prepared for anything; some departments can afford it; some can’t. I remember when some folks were up in arms about PD’s getting surplus armored vehicles from the Military. What in the world could a local PD need an armored vehicle for they asked. Well…. the people trapped in the bathrooms at Pulse Nightclub are alive because a Bearcat breeched the wall, allowed them to get out and Officers to get in and end the massacre. We live in a time of local cops needing armored vehicles, Explosives, and Barrett .50 Cal rifles.

I think the police should have every piece of equipment they can lay their hands on to do their job and go home safe every night!!!

[xtriggerman]

As far as a registry is "supposed to be" illegal for the gov to do...... Then why did I have to send all my completed 4473's to a Gov office in Texas back in 96 when I closed my Gun shop business. I would have destroyed them but that was illegal to do unless the transactions were something like 15 years old.  

  If all cops were good cops (Constitution abiding), yeah, let them have what ever. Sadly that is not the case. In times of Marshal Law, we are to be ordered to do what the Gov deems appropriate regardless of our known rights. Then you have recourse in court of course latter on..... LOL! See how that worked out for Koresh & Weaver. My money tells me who to trust.......

[m16ty]

On 8/23/2019 at 3:39 PM, DaveTN said:

The government doesn’t have immunity on criminal charges. Also, the Feds can’t pardon someone on State charges and vice-versa.

Ha, Ha, Ha, I’m just throwing that out. I understand that if someone believes that government officials can do whatever they want; no amount of discussion will change that; but its fun. 

While I don't think the government has some secret gun registration, people in the government and other high places break the law almost every day and nobody does a thing about it.

The Clintons, most people in the FBI leadership under Obama, Eric Holder, Loretta Lynch, just to name a few off the top of my head. The government pretty much does whatever it wants. Oh, people will gripe about it to no end, but at the end of the day, nobody does anything to stop it of prosecute the people responsible.  

[Intune76]

8 hours ago, m16ty said:

While I don't think the government has some secret gun registration, people in the government and other high places break the law almost every day and nobody does a thing about it.

The Clintons, most people in the FBI leadership under Obama, Eric Holder, Loretta Lynch, just to name a few off the top of my head. The government pretty much does whatever it wants. Oh, people will gripe about it to no end, but at the end of the day, nobody does anything to stop it of prosecute the people responsible.  

“Trust us, we’re with the government...”