Should Citizenship require a term of Service?

[Fadex]

I work for the local government now. I will say that working for the public is not what many people would like to think. It has definitely made me realize that the world is a much bigger place that I ever thought it was, everyone is different and has their own concepts of how "things" should work, and that most people just want you to listen and treat them respectfully, even if you can't help them. Should Citizenship require a term of service? I think yes. In some shape form or fashion but definitely not limited to military, police, or fire departments.

[Rightwinger]

Oh snap son, you didn't just bring BSG and Firefly into this discussion...

I agree Linoge, there was no Starship Troopers movie! Just as there was no Dune movie until Sci Fi channel did the second one all the way through Children of Dune.

Hollywood can screw up any story.

[Guest 270win]

I was born here..I pay the taxes I owe. I also registered with the selective service at 18, as required by law for all males. I can also read and write English. I believe that qualifies quite well for citizenship.

[Guest bkelm18]

I was born here..I pay the taxes I owe. I also registered with the selective service at 18, as required by law for all males. I can also read and write English. I believe that qualifies quite well for citizenship.

+1.

[mousegunner]

I fully realize most of you are not used to thinking like this, but I'm quite ready to argue that atheists should be denied the right to vote or hold office.

I won't say anymore about it however, since it might disentegrate into contentious wrangling. But I would just like to point out that forbidding atheists to hold public office is THE LAW OF THE LAND RIGHT NOW IN MANY STATES, INCLUDING TENNESSEE...

State Constitutions that Discriminate Against Atheists

Arkansas State Constitution, Article 19 Section 1 ("Miscellaneous Provisions")

No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court.

Maryland's Declaration of Rights, Article 36

"That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come."

Massachusetts' State Constitution, Article 3

"Any every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably, and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law: and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law."

Comment: Apparently Non-Christians are not "equally under the protection of the law".

Mississippi State Constitution. Article 14 ("General Provisions"), Section 265

No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8

"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

Pennsylvania's State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4

"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."

South Carolina's State Constitution, Article 4 Section 2

"No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor who denies the existence of the Supreme Being; ..."

Note: If you continue reading you will find that (in Section 8) the Lieutenant Governor must also meet the same qualifications as the Governor.

Tennessee's State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2

"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

[Guest bkelm18]

I fully realize most of you are not used to thinking like this, but I'm quite ready to argue that atheists should be denied the right to vote or hold office.

I won't say anymore about it however, since it might disentegrate into contentious wrangling. But I would just like to point out that forbidding atheists to hold public office is THE LAW OF THE LAND RIGHT NOW IN MANY STATES, INCLUDING TENNESSEE...

State Constitutions that Discriminate Against Atheists

Arkansas State Constitution, Article 19 Section 1 ("Miscellaneous Provisions")

No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court.

Maryland's Declaration of Rights, Article 36

"That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come."

Massachusetts' State Constitution, Article 3

"Any every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably, and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law: and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law."

Comment: Apparently Non-Christians are not "equally under the protection of the law".

Mississippi State Constitution. Article 14 ("General Provisions"), Section 265

No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8

"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

Pennsylvania's State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4

"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."

South Carolina's State Constitution, Article 4 Section 2

"No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor who denies the existence of the Supreme Being; ..."

Note: If you continue reading you will find that (in Section 8) the Lieutenant Governor must also meet the same qualifications as the Governor.

Tennessee's State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2

"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

You know, when I was a kid, I had this book that was a collection of all the most absurd and outdated laws from each state. If I recall correctly, some of the laws you just mentioned were in that book. Now I know atheists frighten you and you think they are not worthy of being an American citizen, but get a grip. As I stated before, the 1st Amendment gives someone the right to choose to be an atheist if they wish and that supersedes any lame law that you can come up with to defend your argument.

[frankmako]

at one time i would have said no. but now with the way things are,, i have changed my mind. 18 to 24 months in the military should be the standard for males, females could do military or other service. for the ones that can not cut it, something could be found,, i.e.. picking up trash, parks service, etc.....

[Guest bkelm18]

at one time i would have said no. but now with the way things are,, i have changed my mind. 18 to 24 months in the military should be the standard for males, females could do military or other service. for the ones that can not cut it, something could be found,, i.e.. picking up trash, parks service, etc.....

I doubt you will find many people who willingly pick up trash for 2 years just to gain something that should be (and currently is) a birthright.

[G27]

You know, when I was a kid, I had this book that was a collection of all the most absurd and outdated laws from each state. If I recall correctly, some of the laws you just mentioned were in that book. Now I know atheists frighten you and you think they are not worthy of being an American citizen, but get a grip. As I stated before, the 1st Amendment gives someone the right to choose to be an atheist if they wish and that supersedes any lame law that you can come up with to defend your argument.

Bingo.

And if anyone thinks ANY of those laws would last more than about one second under scrutiny of a lawsuit, they're crazy.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[Cannon Fodder]

at one time i would have said no. but now with the way things are,, i have changed my mind. 18 to 24 months in the military should be the standard for males, females could do military or other service. for the ones that can not cut it, something could be found,, i.e.. picking up trash, parks service, etc.....

I slightly disagree, if it were to be the standard then all should be held to the standard. If military service is mandatory for Males then it should be for Females also.

I will treat you all alike - just like ****. - Richard Marcinko

[R1100R]

I fully realize most of you are not used to thinking like this, but I'm quite ready to argue that atheists should be denied the right to vote or hold office.

I won't say anymore about it however, since it might disentegrate into contentious wrangling. But I would just like to point out that forbidding atheists to hold public office is THE LAW OF THE LAND RIGHT NOW IN MANY STATES, INCLUDING TENNESSEE...

State Constitutions that Discriminate Against Atheists

Arkansas State Constitution, Article 19 Section 1 ("Miscellaneous Provisions")

No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court.

Maryland's Declaration of Rights, Article 36

"That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come."

Massachusetts' State Constitution, Article 3

"Any every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably, and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law: and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law."

Comment: Apparently Non-Christians are not "equally under the protection of the law".

Mississippi State Constitution. Article 14 ("General Provisions"), Section 265

No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8

"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

Pennsylvania's State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4

"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."

South Carolina's State Constitution, Article 4 Section 2

"No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor who denies the existence of the Supreme Being; ..."

Note: If you continue reading you will find that (in Section 8) the Lieutenant Governor must also meet the same qualifications as the Governor.

Tennessee's State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2

"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledgethe

existence of a Supreme Being."

So your saying if someone believed in a Supreme being. Allah, Budda

the many Hindu Gods, Odon and the many others it is ok. I allright with that.

I feel organized religon in this country should pay taxes. I know many "Churches" that include their leaders salary, house,car, boat, swimming pool, etc etc to be tax free or property of the church.

[enfield]

I'm with Heinlein.

[poak]

Now I know atheists frighten you and you think they are not worthy of being an American citizen, but get a grip. As I stated before, the 1st Amendment gives someone the right to choose to be an atheist if they wish and that supersedes any lame law that you can come up with to defend your argument.

+9,213,789,812

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

What part of "MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION" don't you understand?

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

Was Heinlein describing a society that he liked, or one that he didn't think was a good idea?

[Guest bkelm18]

Was Heinlein describing a society that he liked, or one that he didn't think was a good idea?

A society that whips the sh*t outta some freakish space insects sounds like pretty badass society to me. (I've never read the book, only seen the sh*tty ass movie.)

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

A society that whips the sh*t outta some freakish space insects sounds like pretty badass society to me. (I've never read the book, only seen the sh*tty ass movie.)

+5 for style, -5 for substance.

[Guest bkelm18]

Aww.

[Guest SUNTZU]

The book and movie are the same in name. The book is a whole lot better than the movie could hope to be.

[Guest SUNTZU]

What Heinlein describes is not compulsory service. You can live your life in any form or fashion, be rich or poor, and not serve in military service. You just had no say in politics, or be a Citizen with full voting rights, unless you served.

[Guest jackdog]

Our forefathers, who were far wiser and forward-thinking than most everyone I've ever known, didn't think service should be a mandatory part of citizenship - nor do I.

I totally agree.

[Guest jackdog]

Wow, I don't think I agree with a single one of those...

#1 There is no national language in the US.

#2 Just because someone is on welfare doesn't mean they will only vote their interests.

#3 My wife is a stay-at-home mom who has zero income and pays zero taxes.

#4 I'm a devout Christian but you have GOT to be kidding me...

#5 What if adult children live at home? What if one spouse wishes to vote third-party?

#6 Disagree completely. We have amendments regarding equal voting rights - part of our constitution. A dirty cop (being specific here, not all cops are dirty) doesn't deserve any more of a vote than the business owner who's taxes pay the salary of an entire police department.

I would have to give that double wow all six of those statements is so far from the constitution they are insane.

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

Something few people know about me is that while I'm blessed to operate a successful company now, just six years ago I (including my expecting wife and first child) spent time "on welfare", receiving food stamps (EBT card) and WIC. My second child was delivered via TennCare. I went on to start my own business as my former employer didn't pay anything remotely resembling 'fair' but was on government assistance for about a year. We wouldn't have been able to keep our house or start my new business had it not been for that assistance.

Now, due to the success of my business, I pay more in taxes each year than I grossed annually at my former employer. I have more than paid the great citizens of my state and country back for their blessing us during those tough times. While I depended on help then, it did not change my views or cause me to vote from that perspective - if anything, it gave me a deeper understanding of how great this country is and how many opportunities abound even for those who can't always make it on their own.

I was always embarrassed to pay for my groceries with WIC coupons and our EBT card, always felt people staring at me (whether true or not). It was a tough time for a proud man such as myself, but I kept my head down and we made it through.

To act as if anyone who is on welfare is less of a citizen is disgusting to me, offensive. Do I believe many/most people on welfare are like me, using it as a bridge over the rough times instead of making it part of my lifestyle? No, I'm not that naive. Do we need welfare reform? Absolutely. Change the system, yes, it's time for an overhaul.

But don't you dare judge people who are using the system in a time of need. And don't dare take away their constitutional right to vote.

Just because you deserved a vote at that time doesn't mean that the average ghetto rat on welfare does too.

[G27]

Just because you deserved a vote at that time doesn't mean that the average ghetto rat on welfare does too.

Sure they do, assuming they're citizens of this country. How do you suggest we determine who needs the help (therefore retaining their right to vote) and who is a "ghetto rat" that deserves to go unrepresented?

[Guest jackdog]

Sure they do, assuming they're citizens of this country. How do you suggest we determine who needs the help (therefore retaining their right to vote) and who is a "ghetto rat" that deserves to go unrepresented?

First plus 1 on your reply

second I m happy you have found success in your endeavor.

third I appreciate your courage in admitting in a public forum that you fell on hard times and had to get assistance.

For anyone who thinks they can pick and choose who has a rite to vote in this country. i suggest you research on what terms the founding fathers put this Great nation together.

The rules for voting are clearly spelled out in our laws. Any person who meats those requirements should have vote. The sad part is the voting rules are being eroded, for the soul purpose of letting illegals cast a ballot.

[Punisher84]

I will say this, a few people here have gained ALOT of respect from me and 1 or 2 have made me utterly sick.

I'm not going to start a riot, but I'll say this I stand with Bkelm, Crimson, and Jack 100%. I can't say anything nice that they didn't say. I'm tempted to just cuss and call names.

I think service is a great thing, but I think it should be voluntary, but with some extra benefits. Special privileges for people sacrificing certain ways of life and doing a job most wouldn't. I don't want to be FORCED to do anything. This is supposed to be a FREE country.