Is it really against the law???

[TomInMN]

3 hours ago, beebee233 said:

If you need a reminder that your child is in the back seat of your car your child should be taken from you for their safety's sake.

I'm not convinced that I'll never make that mistake, and I'm still a pretty damn good parent.

[gregintenn]

22 minutes ago, TomInMN said:

I'm not convinced that I'll never make that mistake, and I'm still a pretty damn good parent.

If it makes you feel any better, a dumbazz like me managed to raise two average guys to the verge of adulthood (20 and 15) without ever once accidentally leaving them unattended in a vehicle.

[Chucktshoes]

When I was growing up my parents left us unattended in a running vehicle all the time.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[gregintenn]

5 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

When I was growing up my parents left us unattended in a running vehicle all the time.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

That was before we entered the “Idiocracy” phase.

[Morgan88]

Adult in the car.  Car running with A/C on.  Ridiculous.  I don't think I would ever tell a cop to "pound sand"  due to we may meet again.  Getting the officers name and a short discussion with his or her supervisor would not be out of order.  Doesn't the state of TN enact laws that take effect July 1st?  Maybe a quick look would be enlightening.  I sure hope this is not.  

 

  Morgan88 

[dawgdoc]

Those alarms for children in the car don't always work.  There was a case in Chattanooga several years ago where a guy left his baby in the car that illustrates the mental disconnect that must occur for parents to leave children in the car.  He had one of those alarms, and his car was parked right outside his office.  The alarm went off several times, and he silenced it each time without even thinking that his kid was in the car.  He thought someone was messing with car and didn't remember that he even had the baby that day.  Probably from the moment he started driving and dropping off the older kids at school, he just went back into his everyday routine (that didn't involve taking the baby to daycare).  

Some of these cases are due to neglect by drug-using parents, and a few are done deliberately, but a shockingly large number are normal, stable people you would never think it would happen to.  It is more than just forgetting; it is the brain going into autopilot with tragic consequences.  If you had asked the Chattanooga man if he had the baby in the car that day, he would have said no, and even the question might not have jogged his memory.

[chances R]

My patents left me, but with no AC the widows were always open at home and in the car.

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

If it makes you feel any better, a dumbazz like me managed to raise two average guys to the verge of adulthood (20 and 15) without ever once accidentally leaving them unattended in a vehicle.

Not once did your wife ever have to tell you “Honey, you left the boys in the car”?

 

.....Just checking.

[beebee233]

2 hours ago, TomInMN said:

Incomprehensible? Really? Look at the switch, where's the indicator pointing? Better yet, if it's not bright out, look out the front of your car and see if there are any bright spots. Most people will be able to comprehend how those processes are easier than remembering to turn and look behind them at what they think it's an empty back seat.

My wife and I have two little guys right now. I agree that having kids should (and I'd say for most people it generally does) fundamentally change your world view. I'd also say that, on a day-to-day or hour-to-hour basis, my mind is probably not operating at 100% of its potential. Also, I'm human, and self aware enough to know that I'm not perfect.

There's a chance I'll forget something at some point, and I hope to god that my children aren't harmed as a result. If an alarm could possibly help, I'm glad to have it.

The kids of the people I'm assuming you're addressing with your "put down the phone, focus beyond yourself" statement may not be helped by that alarm, and the people who make a conscious decision to leave their kids in the car certainly won't. But a "check the back seat" alarm might help one kid not die, and I think that's pretty good. In the same vein, I'm a careful driver, but wear my seatbelt anyway.

You're gonna' need another one of these...

[beebee233]

1 hour ago, dawgdoc said:

a shockingly large number are normal, stable people you would never think it would happen to

Ain't buyin'...

Got proof?

[Mark A]

1965, I'm 3, my sister just turned 2, my dad ran in to the pharmacy where he worked to do something. Parking lot was on a hill and I apparently decided it was time to go. I got behind the wheel, knocked the car in to reverse and caved the rear end of my dad's brand new Pontiac after hitting a telephone pole.

According to my dad, that pole was the only thing that prevented us from backing into traffic on a very busy road.

I, of course, have no recollection of the alleged event and maintain my innocence 54 years later...

[Garufa]

2 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

When I was growing up my parents left us unattended in a running vehicle all the time.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Those were they days.  We also had windows that rolled down all the way, no stupid-ass electronic sensors that cost too much and don’t work, and far more intelligent people going about life.

I used to stand up in the passenger seat of mom’s VW Squareback riding around town, lol.  But she sure as hell did not leave me in the car, ever, especially with windows and doors that won’t open.

[peejman]

3 hours ago, TomInMN said:

Incomprehensible? Really? Look at the switch, where's the indicator pointing? Better yet, if it's not bright out, look out the front of your car and see if there are any bright spots. Most people will be able to comprehend how those processes are easier than remembering to turn and look behind them at what they think it's an empty back seat.

My wife and I have two little guys right now. I agree that having kids should (and I'd say for most people it generally does) fundamentally change your world view. I'd also say that, on a day-to-day or hour-to-hour basis, my mind is probably not operating at 100% of its potential. Also, I'm human, and self aware enough to know that I'm not perfect.

There's a chance I'll forget something at some point, and I hope to god that my children aren't harmed as a result. If an alarm could possibly help, I'm glad to have it.

The kids of the people I'm assuming you're addressing with your "put down the phone, focus beyond yourself" statement may not be helped by that alarm, and the people who make a conscious decision to leave their kids in the car certainly won't. But a "check the back seat" alarm might help one kid not die, and I think that's pretty good. In the same vein, I'm a careful driver, but wear my seatbelt anyway.

Yes, really.

We've got 2 kids in elementary school. I spent the first 6 months of both their lives running on less than 3 consecutive hours of sleep, and I forgot all kinds of stuff (shoes, keys, meals, stuff I was supposed to do at work...) but I never forgot that I had a kid. 

As a parent, there is never a day when you're not on duty. The responsibilties change over the years, but it's a lifetime commitment.  

If a "check the back seat" alarm saves 1 life, it's absolutely worth it.   But the fact that they exist at all is a sad commentary on where society has gone. 

[dawgdoc]

On 8/15/2019 at 7:12 PM, beebee233 said:

Ain't buyin'...

Got proof?

https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/1/33

http://psychology.usf.edu/faculty/data/ddiamond/Research_on_Why_Parents_Forget_Children_in_Hot_Cars.pdf

 

Edited to try to fix the broken link.

Edited August 16, 2019 by dawgdoc

[TomInMN]

11 hours ago, peejman said:

Yes, really.

We've got 2 kids in elementary school. I spent the first 6 months of both their lives running on less than 3 consecutive hours of sleep, and I forgot all kinds of stuff (shoes, keys, meals, stuff I was supposed to do at work...) but I never forgot that I had a kid. 

As a parent, there is never a day when you're not on duty. The responsibilties change over the years, but it's a lifetime commitment.  

If a "check the back seat" alarm saves 1 life, it's absolutely worth it.   But the fact that they exist at all is a sad commentary on where society has gone. 

I agree that saving one life is worth it. I also tend, in my generally sleep deprived state, to adopt a "there, but for the grace of God" type of stance. I don't think that I'm such an outstanding specimen of humanity that I could never make a disastrous mistake.

Perhaps that's something that helps keep me from making a disastrous mistake, in a similar way to complacency leading to Glock leg...

[beebee233]

2 hours ago, dawgdoc said:

https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/1/33

Some research into the psychology

First link goes to cdc study. Didn't see proof that the adult perps were normal, stable people.

Second link broke.

Again, show proof that people who leave precious cargo in hot cars to die are normal.

[gregintenn]

15 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Not once did your wife ever have to tell you “Honey, you left the boys in the car”?

 

.....Just checking.

Amazingly, no.

[E4 No More]

42 minutes ago, beebee233 said:

First link goes to cdc study. Didn't see proof that the adult perps were normal, stable people.

Second link broke.

Again, show proof that people who leave precious cargo in hot cars to die are normal.

Why is it incumbent on him to prove what he says and you don't have to prove your position?

[peejman]

4 hours ago, TomInMN said:

I agree that saving one life is worth it. I also tend, in my generally sleep deprived state, to adopt a "there, but for the grace of God" type of stance. I don't think that I'm such an outstanding specimen of humanity that I could never make a disastrous mistake.

Perhaps that's something that helps keep me from making a disastrous mistake, in a similar way to complacency leading to Glock leg...

People ask if I'm tired.  I'm a parent and I'm awake, so yes, I'm tired.  

I don't mean to imply that I'm infallible, far from it. I've been plenty close to making serious mistakes more than a few times. It's in those instances where I think the good Lord gives us little hints...  "pssst... hey...  pay attention, you're about to do something dumb...".  Some folks listen to the hints and heed the advice, some don't.  The guy from Chattanooga mentioned previously got several hints, unfortunaltey he chose not to act on them.  

[dawgdoc]

All right, trying the broken link again:

http://psychology.usf.edu/faculty/data/ddiamond/Research_on_Why_Parents_Forget_Children_in_Hot_Cars.pdf

This article might have a more succinct version of the same researcher's findings: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/anyone-could-forget-kids-in-hot-car-forgotten-baby-syndrome/

From the BMJ article previously cited: 

Quote

More than a quarter of the adults were aware they were leaving children in the vehicles, while half were unaware or forgot. Forty three percent (54) of deaths to children who were left were associated with childcare: 32 children were left by family members who intended to take them to childcare but forgot and went to work instead; 22 children were left by child care providers or drivers.

So more people unintentionally left their kids in hot cars than those that intentionally did so.  I think it is safe to assume that the people who killed their kids while they went to play video poker or smoke meth fall in the "intentional" category, and a large number of the "unintentionally forgotten" children were by probably stable people.  The fact that they normally took the kids to daycare and had jobs suggests at least some stability.  Also, if you browse the various news interviews of people who killed their kids this way, they generally seem like normal people.

 

My point is, we can't just say "Don't leave your kids in the car, stupid!"  That's like telling someone with depression to stop being sad.  First we must understand the epidemiology, and then formulate solutions.  I wonder about details such as did these parents use one of those mirrors that lets you see the child in the carseat?  I rarely take our daughter anywhere in my car, but when I do, I can always see her due that type of mirror.  Other things that might seem like minutia but could be important for preventing the problem--are the rear windows tinted? which way does the car face when parked at work? are kids in third row seats more likely to be unnoticed?

I see it similar to the four rules of gun safety--I don't intend to ever need them, yet I practice them always, and I'm sure some of those people who shot themselves with "unloaded" guns wish they had done the same.

This page might interest some of you:  https://www.kars4kids.org/safety-app/itcanhappen/survey.php

 

[beebee233]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:43 AM, E4 No More said:

Why is it incumbent on him to prove what he says and you don't have to prove your position?

That I'm not buyin'?????????????????

[Ray Z]

You know what?????? I'd rather see overprotective officers checking up on the over heated car than kids dying in the heat.

[E4 No More]

11 hours ago, beebee233 said:

That I'm not buyin'?????????????????

They name streets after you: One Way

[BrasilNuts]

12 hours ago, Ray Z said:

You know what?????? I'd rather see overprotective officers checking up on the over heated car than kids dying in the heat.

Checking on them is fine, what the first officer did, I have no issue with.  The second officer making them go in the store, I have an issue with that.

[Intune76]

On 8/19/2019 at 8:45 AM, BrasilNuts said:

Checking on them is fine, what the first officer did, I have no issue with.  The second officer making them go in the store, I have an issue with that.

Yep, just check, no need to flex.