So is anyone pre-panic buying yet?

[asu174]

1 minute ago, DaveTN said:

It isn’t going to happen. Are you saying you would go to prison over your gun rights?

No, I wouldn’t and neither would most people. I got stuff to do; I ain’t got time to be hanging out in prison cell.

Given the support of red flag laws by many members here, I'm certainly not going to post anything provocative, but I assure you I will not be in prison.

I also would be careful with "it isn't going to happen", given the rapid pace at which many members are willing to drive us to the edge of the cliff, forfeiting every right that doesn't matter to them on the way.  But hey, you have a sweet 401K, right?

[DaveTN]

14 minutes ago, asu174 said:

Given the support of red flag laws by many members here, I'm certainly not going to post anything provocative, but I assure you I will not be in prison.

I also would be careful with "it isn't going to happen", given the rapid pace at which many members are willing to drive us to the edge of the cliff, forfeiting every right that doesn't matter to them on the way.  But hey, you have a sweet 401K, right?

Are you implying I'm driving us to the edge of the cliff, or I am somehow less supportive of gun rights than you are?

[asu174]

6 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Are you implying I'm driving us to the edge of the cliff, or I am somehow less supportive of gun rights than you are?

It's more of an accusation, but yes, absolutely, on both.  You outright admitted it on page one.  "It doesn't affect me, so I don't care..."

I also indirectly called you the enemy if you didn't catch that.

Edited August 13, 2019 by asu174

[Garufa]

Such hand-wringing, tinfoil hat threads are always entertaining.  If you don’t have what you want (or need) by now you’ve been sleeping, or worse, just complacent.

Accept it or not but the winds are changing and the ninnies are driving the boat.  

Stock up all you want but I seriously believe future bans, and they are coming, will not include any grandfathering.  Bump stocks are an excellent example of that, regardless of what one thinks of them.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Garufa

[DaveTN]

8 minutes ago, asu174 said:

It's more of an accusation, but yes, absolutely, on both.  You outright admitted it on page one.  "It doesn't affect me, so I don't care..."

I also indirectly called you the enemy if you didn't catch that.

RIF.

Go back and read my threads about the Red Flag Laws (If that is what you are talking about).  Or don't and just call me the enemy. 

[Cruel Hand Luke]

44 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Civil disobedience on Federal Weapons charges? Call me a sissy, but you will have to count me out. 

 

 

To quote Vincent Lauria...."If everybody's doing it...that's a lot of guys doing it...."  They don't have the space to house them all if 2 million people say they are not interested in conforming. 

In 1984 the Winter Olympics were held in Sarajevo , Yugoslavia....by 1992 the country was in the midst of a civil war......I'm not in ANY way saying that is a positive thing. But at some point people cease to follow rules when they do not see the powers that be as legitimate or when they feel things have gone too far . And like it or not this country was founded by people who ceased to follow the rules when they felt things had gone too far...and they ceased to see the powers that be as legitimate. We also had a 4 year "unpleasantness" in the 1860s because enough people didn't respect the direction an election took.... There are some very interesting parallels between the 2020 election and the 1860 election....

[felinesNfreedom]

3 hours ago, Defender said:

My experience with gun grabbers is that they entice you with compromise on what they cal 'reasonable', then you compromise, and they keep pushing and taking.  They dont want us to have guns period.  Everything is a step towards that for them.  I dont care one bit about bumpstocks, but that was a step...

This is correct. Braces could be next and then magazines cause who needs 30 rounds to deer hunt..... I missed the first AWB due to age but I sure don't want to see another one, or something worse. 

[mike_f]

3 hours ago, TGO David said:

SB Tactical is one.  There may be others?  I only know of them.  Everything I have with a brace is SB Tactical.

They went through the effort to get an ATF determination letter a while back.  Several other manufacturers copied their letter under the assumption that the ATF's opinion applied to them too.  In principle, it may have - for a time, but if times change those manufacturers might find themselves on the wrong side of a new policy shift.

 

I was already looking at Primary Arms - the black SB Tactical A3 brace is on sale for $80. Lowest price I've seen.

https://www.primaryarms.com/sb-tactical-sba3-pistol-stabilizing-arm-brace-black

You people are a bad influence.........

[btq96r]

5 hours ago, TGO David said:

SB Tactical is one.  There may be others?  I only know of them.  Everything I have with a brace is SB Tactical.

They went through the effort to get an ATF determination letter a while back.  Several other manufacturers copied their letter under the assumption that the ATF's opinion applied to them too.  In principle, it may have - for a time, but if times change those manufacturers might find themselves on the wrong side of a new policy shift.

 

If ATF gets the urge, they can reverse their position on all pistol braces.  SB Tactical may have the best court case of them all if/when it comes to that, but I don't see the courts upending an administrative agency exercising the authority Congress delegated to it. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Garufa said:

Such hand-wringing, tinfoil hat threads are always entertaining.  If you don’t have what you want (or need) by now you’ve been sleeping, or worse, just complacent.

Accept it or not but the winds are changing and the ninnies are driving the boat.  

Stock up all you want but I seriously believe future bans, and they are coming, will not include any grandfathering.  Bump stocks are an excellent example of that, regardless of what one thinks of them. 

Ding, mf'ing ding o the if you don't have what you want by now part.

I think no grandfathering on bump stocks came from the low numbers in use.  Pistol braces would be in the same category, but admittedly more than bump stocks, but still a niche accessory. 

Assault weapons, and high capacity mags are so widespread, they would be almost impossible to carte blanche ban like that. 

[gary_boom]

I thought about stopping at a local gun shop and seeing if 22ammo was 10 cents a round yet and Magpul mags were $40.

[TGO David]

Shooters Nation has given me a rare opportunity that I frankly don't deserve to sit among people inside the industry and listen to what they're saying.  I've heard and seen things that have later come to pass, and likewise things that fizzled and never manifested.  That's the way "insider" information works.

In the last 72 hours, some of what I've been privy to has been leaked elsewhere on social media by other people eager to outdo each other.  I guess to prove that they know cool people who know cool things, or whatever.  I'm not keen on betraying the confidence that some of these folks have shown in me, so I'll continue to keep my mouth shut.

I will say this... we've got some smart folks on TGO and a lot of common sense present here.  Naturally we come to some pretty accurate conclusions all on our own.

But we've also got some loud voices on TGO that people are listening to at their own peril just because they're loud on TGO.

Like I said, some of what I've seen and heard in advance has fizzled out or changed.  What I've heard in the last 48 hours from people in the industry who generally know things in advance has changed directions twice and two people that I've come to trust are now diametrically opposing each other's statements about what the government might be ramping up to do in response to the recent spree killings.

I'd just buy whatever you want to buy with the thought in mind that nothing is guaranteed tomorrow.  AR pistols and pistol braces have been a finger in the ATF's eye for a while and it's only logical to assume that they might be low-hanging fruit for a President that wants to be perceived as having "Done something".

Don't assume there are too many of them to do anything about.  Some things can be made legal to own but illegal to transfer, effectively halting the propagation of them beyond the current generation of owners.  And that's not insider info... that's just me thinking out loud.

[asu174]

With ATF’s eye on braces, the likely outcome is NFA regulation, which to many would defeat the purpose of a pistol brace.  Wouldn’t you have to assume that the natural path would be a grace period and then a required tax stamp if you want to have one on a gun with a barrel less than 16”?  Braces would be the last thing I would buy right now.  I see them going the way of any other stock.  

Many of us have affiliations with industry people or folks in the know.  I think we all know what is on the menu, but there is no clear path on how it gets done.  In order of “lowest hanging fruit”...red flag, universal background checks, braces, body armor, AWB.  

The only hope for braces is that the original, documented reason they were created was to help a one armed vet shoot an AR.  What could have been a valid American Disabilities Act case has been far overshadowed by millions using them for other purposes and just further muddying what a “pistol” is.  Toss a mass shooting in the mix and it’s game over.

[DaveTN]

8 hours ago, btq96r said:

Assault weapons, and high capacity mags are so widespread, they would be almost impossible to carte blanche ban like that. 

I noticed that when Biden made his outlandish statement the other day about “Assault weapons” he tried to assure us he wouldn’t just be taking them. He would pay us. 

Quote

 

Biden was clear that he would not seek to confiscate privately owned or purchased guns, instead advocating for "a national buyback program" intended to get the weapons "off the street."

"That's not walking into their home, knocking on their doors, going through their gun cabinets, et cetera," he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/politics/joe-biden-el-paso-shooting-cnntv/index.html

 

 

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Let's at least be honest ...it is NOT a "buy back" because they never owned them to begin with.

Call it what it is....giving you back some of your tax dollars you already paid in to the govt to try to appease you for taking your property and further limiting your freedom. Call it what it is. 

[Chucktshoes]

This is the risk when you have an administration that isn’t headed by a traditional politician and doesn’t play by the normal rules. You haven’t a clue what’s actually going to happen until it does. 

[DaveTN]

43 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

This is the risk when you have an administration that isn’t headed by a traditional politician and doesn’t play by the normal rules. You haven’t a clue what’s actually going to happen until it does. 

Many of us wanted a President that wasn’t “politics as usual”. That is what we have.

I would guess after Trump it will go back to that. Pence is a nice guy, but he’s just another Politician.

But hopefully that problem is over 5 years away. We can probably groom another little Trump Jr. by then.

[Chucktshoes]

7 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Many of us wanted a President that wasn’t “politics as usual”. That is what we have.

I would guess after Trump it will go back to that. Pence is a nice guy, but he’s just another Politician.

But hopefully that problem is over 5 years away. We can probably groom another little Trump Jr. by then.

I know it’s what folks wanted. I’m just pointing out the risks that cane with it. 

[DaveTN]

5 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I know it’s what folks wanted. I’m just pointing out the risks that cane with it. 

Matter of fact it could actually be Trump Jr. by then. How cool would that be? You get a suppressor….and you get a suppressor…and you get a suppressor. 

 

[btq96r]

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

AR pistols and pistol braces have been a finger in the ATF's eye for a while and it's only logical to assume that they might be low-hanging fruit for a President that wants to be perceived as having "Done something".

Yup.  The more gun owners flaunted the uses of braces to beguile themselves into an SBR, the more ATF looks stupid, and you really don't want to poke that bees nest with all the delegated authority they have.

[felinesNfreedom]

EDIT

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by felinesNfreedom

[felinesNfreedom]

2 hours ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

Let's at least be honest ...it is NOT a "buy back" because they never owned them to begin with.

Call it what it is....giving you back some of your tax dollars you already paid in to the govt to try to appease you for taking your property and further limiting your freedom. Call it what it is. 

Tyranny?

[Chucktshoes]

4 hours ago, btq96r said:

Yup.  The more gun owners flaunted the uses of braces to beguile themselves into an SBR, the more ATF looks stupid, and you really don't want to poke that bees nest with all the delegated authority they have.

When dealing with any government entity, acting the same as if you were involved in a hostage situation is usually the best course of action. Keep your head down, don’t draw attention to yourself, and no sudden movements. 

[TGO David]

8 hours ago, btq96r said:

Yup.  The more gun owners flaunted the uses of braces to beguile themselves into an SBR, the more ATF looks stupid, and you really don't want to poke that bees nest with all the delegated authority they have.

Yep.

[TGO David]

10 hours ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

Let's at least be honest ...it is NOT a "buy back" because they never owned them to begin with.

Call it what it is....giving you back some of your tax dollars you already paid in to the govt to try to appease you for taking your property and further limiting your freedom. Call it what it is. 

 

7 hours ago, felinesNfreedom said:

Tyranny?

Double yep.

[TGO David]

23 hours ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

To quote Vincent Lauria...."If everybody's doing it...that's a lot of guys doing it...."  They don't have the space to house them all if 2 million people say they are not interested in conforming. 

In 1984 the Winter Olympics were held in Sarajevo , Yugoslavia....by 1992 the country was in the midst of a civil war......I'm not in ANY way saying that is a positive thing. But at some point people cease to follow rules when they do not see the powers that be as legitimate or when they feel things have gone too far . And like it or not this country was founded by people who ceased to follow the rules when they felt things had gone too far...and they ceased to see the powers that be as legitimate. We also had a 4 year "unpleasantness" in the 1860s because enough people didn't respect the direction an election took.... There are some very interesting parallels between the 2020 election and the 1860 election....

Good stuff here.