Businesses asking for carry permit credentials

[lock n' load]

Today at my wife's work, a patron came in open carrying a firearm and they asked him to show them his carry permit. He told them that he forgot to bring it and they told him to leave. She told me that a law was passed this year that allows a business to ask a permit holder to show them their permit when they enter their establishment if they know or suspect they may be packing. I may be wrong in assuming this but I was under the impression that only LEOs can request a permit holder to show them their permit. I'm not familiar with businesses being able to do so. I know that a businesses can prohibit guns on their property with signage but if they allow firearms can they ask for proof?

[hipower]

I surely don't know, but that is a good question to have answered.

[joe4vol]

You have to have it on you to be able to carry a handgun. 

[DaveTN]

They can ask whatever they like; they don’t need a law to ask. And the HCP holder can either comply or refuse and leave. They don’t need to be posted to ask someone carrying a gun to leave. They just have to be properly posted for the holder to be cited.

In my opinion its better than posting. In checking, they found that the patron was not in compliance with the law; so he was carrying illegally.

[jhc77]

Link below says "Open carry is legal with a permit or without a permit if the gun is unloaded and the ammunition is not in the immediate vicinity. Tennessee prohibits the possession of a firearm “with the intent to go armed.” The minimum age is 18 years old. Some areas are off-limits, including government buildings and schools."Didn't know that. I need a refresher apparently.

usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/tn-gun-laws/

Edited August 11, 2019 by jhc77
link

[bersaguy]

6 hours ago, DaveTN said:

They can ask whatever they like; they don’t need a law to ask. And the HCP holder can either comply or refuse and leave. They don’t need to be posted to ask someone carrying a gun to leave. They just have to be properly posted for the holder to be cited.

In my opinion its better than posting. In checking, they found that the patron was not in compliance with the law; so he was carrying illegally.

I also thought if the patron was packing and didn't have his carry permit on his person he was packing illegally also. I always have my permit on me when ever I carry my firearm. My guess would be he didn't have a permit in the first placeand should not have been packing........JMHO

Edited August 11, 2019 by bersaguy

[JayC]

On 8/10/2019 at 10:34 PM, lock n' load said:

Today at my wife's work, a patron came in open carrying a firearm and they asked him to show them his carry permit. He told them that he forgot to bring it and they told him to leave. She told me that a law was passed this year that allows a business to ask a permit holder to show them their permit when they enter their establishment if they know or suspect they may be packing. I may be wrong in assuming this but I was under the impression that only LEOs can request a permit holder to show them their permit. I'm not familiar with businesses being able to do so. I know that a businesses can prohibit guns on their property with signage but if they allow firearms can they ask for proof?

They're free to ask you anything, but you're under no obligation to show ID to anybody except the police if they ask to see your permit, or your drivers license while operating a motor vehicle.  They obviously can ask you to leave if you refuse.

Frankly I'm not going to show my ID to a store clerk for any reason, unless it's a gun store and I'm buying a firearm   I'd be happy to confirm I have a permit and that it's on me, but no way I'm going to give out my personal information like that to a random stranger.

If they push back, I'd ask to speak the the manager and express the liability they excepting by requesting to see my personal information in relation to firearm ownership, ie identify theft, targeted theft of firearms, etc.

[bersaguy]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 7:34 AM, jhc77 said:

Link below says "Open carry is legal with a permit or without a permit if the gun is unloaded and the ammunition is not in the immediate vicinity. Tennessee prohibits the possession of a firearm “with the intent to go armed.” The minimum age is 18 years old. Some areas are off-limits, including government buildings and schools."Didn't know that. I need a refresher apparently.

usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/tn-gun-laws/

So according to that law a person can carry pistol on their person but not allowed to have it loaded or have the amunition on their person that fits the gun???? Ok so what is the sense in packing an empty gun around?? That is another one of those useless laws that cost the taxpayers to pay some politician to introduce which we all know had to come from the left. I guess if the gun is big enough you could use it for a club in a knife fight!!!!

[BrasilNuts]

On 8/10/2019 at 11:34 PM, lock n' load said:

Today at my wife's work, a patron came in open carrying a firearm and they asked him to show them his carry permit. He told them that he forgot to bring it and they told him to leave. She told me that a law was passed this year that allows a business to ask a permit holder to show them their permit when they enter their establishment if they know or suspect they may be packing. I may be wrong in assuming this but I was under the impression that only LEOs can request a permit holder to show them their permit. I'm not familiar with businesses being able to do so. I know that a businesses can prohibit guns on their property with signage but if they allow firearms can they ask for proof?

I’m curious what type of business this is?

[Morgan88]

How many legal HCP holders leave the house without their card?   Kinda like leaving the house without ur wallet?   NOT!

 as someone above noted I'm also suspicious the dude didn't have a card.

Morgan88 

[peejman]

On 8/14/2019 at 3:07 PM, bersaguy said:

So according to that law a person can carry pistol on their person but not allowed to have it loaded or have the amunition on their person that fits the gun???? Ok so what is the sense in packing an empty gun around?? That is another one of those useless laws that cost the taxpayers to pay some politician to introduce which we all know had to come from the left. I guess if the gun is big enough you could use it for a club in a knife fight!!!!

How else would you get your new pistol from the store to the car?

[Grunt67]

My guess is, he never had one. I carry my HCP in my wallet at all times. I've carried mine since back in the 90's, never been asked for it.

 

[Defender]

Old thread, but I would imagine that the owner of private property has that right, whether the law stipulates it or not, just as they have the right to ask you to leave.

[jgradyc]

I don't understand why anyone would open carry into a business or in public.

Why would you give up the tactical advantage of letting others know that you are armed? Why would you want to be identified as the first person a bad guy would shoot? Why would you want to be hassled and waste time talking to someone about whether or not you had a HCP? 

 

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, jgradyc said:

I don't understand why anyone would open carry into a business or in public.

Why would you give up the tactical advantage of letting others know that you are armed? Why would you want to be identified as the first person a bad guy would shoot? Why would you want to be hassled and waste time talking to someone about whether or not you had a HCP? 

[Moped]

On 1/8/2020 at 11:54 AM, DaveTN said:

This! ☝☝☝

[Gary Slider]

39-17-1351(n)(1)

Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2) and subsection (x), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for eight (8) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.

[Grayfox54]

I'm still curious as to what kind of business this was? 

[lock n' load]

2 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm still curious as to what kind of business this was? 

It is a restaurant

[Cruel Hand Luke]

And in 23 years of carrying 24/7 365 I have never been asked for a permit by a restaurant I was in ....but then again I don't feel the overwhelming need to open carry in restaurants ..... 

You know who NEVER gets hassled or harassed or has to answer questions about their gun ? People who keep them concealed.....just sayin' . 

[chances R]

Bottom line, it may happen.  Remember the Officer at the Outback that was asked to leave?  It is private property where home court trumps just about everything else.  CHL carries completely concealed, therefore no questions asked, possibly even in non-permissive locations. 

[DaveTN]

47 minutes ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

And in 23 years of carrying 24/7 365 I have never been asked for a permit by a restaurant I was in ....but then again I don't feel the overwhelming need to open carry in restaurants ..... 

You know who NEVER gets hassled or harassed or has to answer questions about their gun ? People who keep them concealed.....just sayin' . 

Exactly. And a couple of things…

1. we will never change, no matter what we do, how some people react when they see a gun.

2. People judge people on their appearance. You can argue all you want about it; but we all do it. So if you look like a dirt bag carrying a gun; you will get treated as such.

I know full well that when I’m riding my Harley, if someone sees a gun; they probably won’t say anything to me, they will probably call the Police. And if I stay there long enough the Police will show up and ask for my ID and carry permit. 

[Grayfox54]

4 hours ago, lock n' load said:

It is a restaurant

Ok, now I understand. As stated, you never know how other people will react to seeing a gun. I can certainly see management's desire to keep some snowflake from freaking out in their establishment. In this case, I think they did the right thing. 

[lock n' load]

Out of sight, out of mind is my philosophy..

[One1]

The business should be reprimanded for trying to be the police. They have no right to ask for your permit. Either they allow guns or they do not allow guns. The end. Conditional admittance based on information they cannot legally ask for (otherwise you'd be required to show) in an attempt to be the police and invade your privacy sounds like a rights violation.  Either allow guns or don’t allow guns.  

Edited May 8, 2020 by One1