El Paso Mall shooting

[Garufa]

9 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Do you have a link to this?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dayton-ohio-shooting-massacre-bar

Pic within.

[Johnny Rotten]

5 minutes ago, Garufa said:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dayton-ohio-shooting-massacre-bar

Pic within.

Thanks.

That's a shockwave pistol brace with 100rd beta mag, we're screwed

[Alleycat72]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Thanks.

That's a shockwave pistol brace with 100rd beta mag, we're screwed

SR25 mags inbound.

[Johnny Rotten]

10 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

SR25 mags inbound.

Belts are where its at

Untitled by Johnny Rotten, on Flickr

[btq96r]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Thanks.

That's a shockwave pistol brace with 100rd beta mag, we're screwed

Well, last time we had accessories used to aid in a mass shooting (Las Vegas), our NRA endorsed President stood tall and *checks notes* banned bump stocks...rut-roh.

[gregintenn]

28 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Thanks.

That's a shockwave pistol brace with 100rd beta mag, we're screwed

On deck is Tannerite.

[Mark A]

It won't be too drastic. He wants to get re-elected.

Next February is going to be the banners wet dream time. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

1 hour ago, btq96r said:

Well, last time we had accessories used to aid in a mass shooting (Las Vegas), our NRA endorsed President stood tall and *checks notes* banned bump stocks...rut-roh.

And yet the liar Cory Booker was claiming this morning that Trump hasn't done any gun control measures. That's just not so!, and Chucky Todd knew that yet did not correct the loudmouth. Unbiased media my butt! I was yelling at the old boob tube this morning.

I'd bet Trump will go after 100 round mags now...not that it will stop deranged people from mass killing. Only a police state on perpetual lockdown will stop this sort of stuff as we all know. Saying that... outlawing 100 rd. magazines is the least offensive measure he can throw at law abiding gun owners. Most don't even know they exist.

In this day and age Trump is our best hope at stemming the tide of our loss of gun rights. He's up against a wall and if he loses in 2020 we will be losing alot more than 100 rd mags!

Edited August 5, 2019 by OLDNEWBIE
spelling

[Quavodus]

I think as the way it sits now, that Trump will be reelected. At least I hope I'm right. 

[Whisper]

Trump would certainly be reelected if he would sit back, keep quiet, and let the performance of the economy be his campaign message.  But because Trump is more focused on saying and doing childish and arrogant things than he is on anything else, including leading the country, I think it's entirely possible he many find a way to lose against the worst field of Democratic candidates in my lifetime.  

[bigun]

I have a bad feeling about our 2A rights. Trump is calling for the senate and house to come together for back ground checks. Hope I'm wrong.

[DaveTN]

Our 2nd amendment rights are controlled by the United States Constitution and enforced by the Supreme Court of the United States. The President can’t do much by himself.  

Nothing earth shattering in his speech. He called for Congress to work together to come up with answers. That isn’t going to happen. Background checks and Red Flag laws; nothing new there.

He wants to address Video Games and Social Media. Yeah okay.

Like everyone else he’s calling on mental health professionals, expecting them to address a Congress locked in hate and wanting to give nothing of value to this President.

I don’t see much happening here. Although, it would not surprise me to see legislation requiring all gun sales to go through back-ground checks. That would probably pass but would become a States Rights issue and go to the SCOTUS, eventually.

Oh yea, babble about the death penalty. Like many, he just doesn’t seem to get it that threats don’t work with people willing to die. I’m pretty sure the guy in Texas knew he will be executed and was okay with that.

Edited August 5, 2019 by DaveTN

[Erich]

What was folks read on the internet and allowing govt agencies anything they need? Social media and other parts of the web that are less accessible?

I think many are of the mind that is a good place to look, but how the heck do you follow that thru to action preserving due process and rights? An extension of patriot act as potential terrorist threat as a workaround?

[DaveTN]

26 minutes ago, Erich said:

What was folks read on the internet and allowing govt agencies anything they need? Social media and other parts of the web that are less accessible?

I think many are of the mind that is a good place to look, but how the heck do you follow that thru to action preserving due process and rights? An extension of patriot act as potential terrorist threat as a workaround?

No special “acts” or laws are required. They are already in place. No violation of Constitutional Rights is required for enforcement. What is required is manpower. Local PD’s don’t have the manpower to deal with all the internet whacko’s in their cities. I’m not sure of that; but that would be my guess.

[Erich]

I was thinking FBI or possibly Homeland cyber teams. Direct tap into certain platforms, no more pretending they dont, active searching. Of course, if that public knowledge, seems they would stop posting.

Trick may be deciphering an active threat identified by affirmative direct statements of planned action versus a potential that just expressed hatred without action as some could say you are within your rights to speak your mind under 1A. Guess they will sort that out.

The thing that always strikes me is many times these killers' parents knew of their mental issues and potential (thinking of Sandy Hook especially). But did nothing. May sound crazy, but would be something to see a duty to report for evaluation and penalties for family that do not.  I know...crazy.

[bersaguy]

They keep throwing around the statements about Mental Health Professionals needing to be a big part of fixing the problem. I do agree with that but these professionals will expect to be paid for their services and since the insurance industry is in total dissary and so many Americans don't have insurance where is the money going to come from to pay these professionals. I'm sure they will not just jump up and volunteer to do it Pro-Bono like some attorneys do.

    And then you have these people like the Dayton Shooter. According to police he never even got a parking ticket. I think it is very strange that he would open fire in a crowd knowing his sister and a friend where in the place and he ended up shooting and killing her and injuring her friend. If they all arrived together in 1 vehicle how many people think they knew what his plans were? I wonder how much information the friend is going to be able to provide? I would not think they knew his plans and went there knowing his plans to shoot up the place but that is just my opinion. Police have mentioned it once I think that his sister and her friend may have been his targets but not much else has been mentioned about that.

I have been saying prayers for everyone affected by both shootings and I would like to say Good Job to the First Responders in Dayton. They save a whole lot of lives with their very fast response to the gun fire. 

[DaveTN]

30 minutes ago, Erich said:

I was thinking FBI or possibly Homeland cyber teams. Direct tap into certain platforms, no more pretending they dont, active searching. Of course, if that public knowledge, seems they would stop posting.

Trick may be deciphering an active threat identified by affirmative direct statements of planned action versus a potential that just expressed hatred without action as some could say you are within your rights to speak your mind under 1A. Guess they will sort that out.

The thing that always strikes me is many times these killers' parents knew of their mental issues and potential (thinking of Sandy Hook especially). But did nothing. May sound crazy, but would be something to see a duty to report for evaluation and penalties for family that do not.  I know...crazy.

Adam lanza did not exhibit any violence. People that have not exhibited violence would not be detected; he would have been one not detected.

He had mental problems, but then there is this from Wikipedia…

Quote

Because of concerns that published accounts of Lanza's autism could result in a backlash against others with the condition, autism advocates campaigned to clarify that autism is a brain-related developmental disorder and not a mental illness.[157] The violence Lanza demonstrated in the shooting is generally not seen in the autistic population[158] and none of the psychiatrists he saw detected troubling signs of violence in his disposition

I think what most people have issue with and what legislation will attempt to address is those people that have acted out, they have had contact with the Police and/or medial/mental health professionals because of a violent incident , threat of violence, or threat of suicide.

[bersaguy]

29 minutes ago, Erich said:

I was thinking FBI or possibly Homeland cyber teams. Direct tap into certain platforms, no more pretending they dont, active searching. Of course, if that public knowledge, seems they would stop posting.

Trick may be deciphering an active threat identified by affirmative direct statements of planned action versus a potential that just expressed hatred without action as some could say you are within your rights to speak your mind under 1A. Guess they will sort that out.

The thing that always strikes me is many times these killers' parents knew of their mental issues and potential (thinking of Sandy Hook especially). But did nothing. May sound crazy, but would be something to see a duty to report for evaluation and penalties for family that do not.  I know...crazy.

I think a lot of this refers back to that old expression "If you see something or hear something say something!" Most people like that woman in San Bernadino back several years ago. She could hear things but didn't want to get involved and it cost many lives by keeping quiet. The manifesto from the El Paso shooter was released just shortly before he went on the shooting spree but with all the hatred that person had in him I would be willing to bet he had talked with family or friends about his feelings and they either didn't believe he was serious or they didn't think he would do something like that. Still in all, if he did talk about it with anyone they should have told someone about his feelings. There are many people that are upset with the influx of Hispanic people flooding into our country but his actions is not and never will be the answer to the problem............JMHO

[DaveTN]

22 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

They keep throwing around the statements about Mental Health Professionals needing to be a big part of fixing the problem. I do agree with that but these professionals will expect to be paid for their services and since the insurance industry is in total dissary and so many Americans don't have insurance where is the money going to come from to pay these professionals. I'm sure they will not just jump up and volunteer to do it Pro-Bono like some attorneys do.

    And then you have these people like the Dayton Shooter. According to police he never even got a parking ticket. I think it is very strange that he would open fire in a crowd knowing his sister and a friend where in the place and he ended up shooting and killing her and injuring her friend. If they all arrived together in 1 vehicle how many people think they knew what his plans were? I wonder how much information the friend is going to be able to provide? I would not think they knew his plans and went there knowing his plans to shoot up the place but that is just my opinion. Police have mentioned it once I think that his sister and her friend may have been his targets but not much else has been mentioned about that.

I have been saying prayers for everyone affected by both shootings and I would like to say Good Job to the First Responders in Dayton. They save a whole lot of lives with their very fast response to the gun fire. 

Correct. Money could be an issue. Some people can’t afford mental health care, some of the parents may have the money for it, but don’t want to spend it. Sorry…but there are some messed up totally worthless parents out there and they aren’t all that rare. Especially at the age most of these people are at.

I’ve told the story here before about the guy that threw a block through the windshield of my squad car because he was kicked out of a mental health facility, because his state money ran out, and he was told they wouldn’t take him back if he had committed no crime. Luckily, he decided to damage my squad to get back in; he could have stuck a knife in someone.

Those are the kinds of issues the legislature has to address.

Edited August 5, 2019 by DaveTN

[Erich]

58 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Adam lanza did not exhibit any violence. People that have not exhibited violence would not be detected; he would have been one not detected.

He had mental problems, but then there is this from Wikipedia…

 

I'm not talking about selective 2019 Googling. I am thinking back to 2012 and what they surfaced about his relationship with his mom and what witnesses had said she had told them before he killed her.

His mother knew he had issues outside aspergers and she was afraid of him and what he might do.  As I recall witnesses said he had threatened to kill her, and potentially she was going to commit him. I dont recall the order or all of it.

I am sure that is googalable / wikiable and I look forward to what you find to also shoot that down and that no one knew (though that is not what the reports where at the time) as its been lost, forgotten, or debunked over the last 7 years

 

[Erik88]

I love the attempts to defend or minimize his words. Some of you would be foaming at the mouth if a Democrat had said the same thing. Trump may be a lot of things, but a defender of the 2nd amendment he is not. Is he worse than the dems? Not sure. But he has already done more damage than Obama and I'm way more scared of an anti-gun Republican president than an anti-gun Democrat. We've already seen the GOP do absolutely nothing to stop his push to ban bump stocks.  

Just like before, no one forced Trump to do this. The people that hate him are never going to vote for him even if he flops on his gun stance. He gained nothing from his bump stock ban yet he still did it(you can blame the DOJ but we all know it was Trump's doing).  

You can like his economic or immigration policies. You may think he's done a great job. But deep down, Trump is an authoritarian gun grabber just like those before him. 

[DaveTN]

2 hours ago, Erich said:

I'm not talking about selective 2019 Googling. I am thinking back to 2012 and what they surfaced about his relationship with his mom and what witnesses had said she had told them before he killed her.

His mother knew he had issues outside aspergers and she was afraid of him and what he might do.  As I recall witnesses said he had threatened to kill her, and potentially she was going to commit him. I dont recall the order or all of it.

I am sure that is googalable / wikiable and I look forward to what you find to also shoot that down and that no one knew (though that is not what the reports where at the time) as its been lost, forgotten, or debunked over the last 7 years

 

I’m not shooting anything down. I think I have made it clear I have no tolerance for those that commit violent acts or threaten violence. Cuff them, stuff them, take their guns, and take them to trial. If convicted they lose their guns and are prohibited from anymore purchases. If they are not convicted or charges are dropped; their guns are immediately returned. I support clearly defined due process with no gray areas and times specified in hours or days not weeks or months. If guns are seized as evidence in a crime; so be it. But if a person is not charged criminally and their guns are confiscated as a safety precaution; they should be able to go before a Judge immediately or as soon as they can get an attorney if they want one, to decide on the seizure.

[Erich]

7 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

..But deep down, Trump is an authoritarian gun grabber just like those before him. 

I dont really have an opinion on Trump, save he pointed the finger in the right place today. But was curious what your basis for this is in action, based mainly on Bump stocks? 

He had the opportunity today to invoke executive orders that could have been really bad, but did not (yet?). Do that is passing on a golden opportunity if he is a gun grabber, no?

[DaveTN]

18 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I love the attempts to defend or minimize his words. Some of you would be foaming at the mouth if a Democrat had said the same thing. Trump may be a lot of things, but a defender of the 2nd amendment he is not. Is he worse than the dems? Not sure. But he has already done more damage than Obama and I'm way more scared of an anti-gun Republican president than an anti-gun Democrat. We've already seen the GOP do absolutely nothing to stop his push to ban bump stocks.  

Just like before, no one forced Trump to do this. The people that hate him are never going to vote for him even if he flops on his gun stance. He gained nothing from his bump stock ban yet he still did it(you can blame the DOJ but we all know it was Trump's doing).  

You can like his economic or immigration policies. You may think he's done a great job. But deep down, Trump is an authoritarian gun grabber just like those before him. 

Who is defending or minimizing his words? I’ve commented about your rant about bump stocks before; because no one gives a rolling rip down a razor blade about bump stocks. It’s a non-issue. That was a BATF screw-up and Trump just directed them to make it right.

We couldn’t have SBR’s and now all of sudden we can; because now they are “pistols”. I took advantage of that. Will I be surprised if a court ever slaps the ignorance out of the BATF on that? Of course not. Common sense and the intent of the law will prevail when questioned. If you want to allow bump stocks or short barrel rifles; repeal the laws banning them.

The law requiring background checks passed the house. When it comes to a vote in the Senate; I expect it will pass. Will you blame him for that also?

I see nothing that makes me think Trump is a gun grabber. But even if I did, what do you want to do? Is there one of those Democrats that has a chance you want to see elected?

[Dirtshooter]

It seems to be always the weapon be it a gun, knife or vehicle. There is a human body with a finger, hand, foot and part of a brain that does the ASSAULT. The brain is the ASSAULT weapon, not the tool. Which a firearm, hammer, knife or vehicle can be used as a tool. The liberal left won't be happy until all citizens are helpless victims because they won't have any tools to defend themselves. But I bet you all the money you could stuff into Fort Knox that the liberal left will still have walls around their compounds and their personal bodyguards will have all those EVIL black rifles and other assorted weapons. Put the blame where blame belongs and it danged sure isn't at the feet of the law abiding gun owners. Rant ended for now.