AR10 discussion

[reed1285]

Alright, going through a real first-world problem here folks! I am looking at purchasing my first 308 chambered AR rifle in the near future. I am looking to spend around the $1k mark, which obviously limits my choices some. The rifle will be used for hunting and the occasional range session. So far I have looked at these options: PSA Gen 2 build (the cheapest option, so room in the budget for an optic), a Savage MSR 10 Hunter (really like the way this rifle looks), a S&W M&P 10 or M&P 10 Sport, and the Springfield Saint Victor. So far the Springfield I think has the narrow lead over the Savage.

Just looking for input, let's talk! Any other rifles I should be considering that I haven't listed besides Diamondback?

Edited July 21, 2019 by reed1285

[A.J. Holst]

No need or immediate want in my life.

Other than a desire for a big bore AR platform, my only advice based on "hunting and occasional range" is a good optic budget, not a good budget optic.

From the recent AR thread, with patience for flash sales, you could build one.

$1000 all at once vs. a hundred here and there over time.

Edited July 21, 2019 by A.J. Holst

[reed1285]

5 minutes ago, A.J. Holst said:

No need or immediate want in my life.

Other than a desire for a big bore AR platform, my only advice based on "hunting and occasional range" is a good optic budget, not a good budget optic.

From the recent AR thread, with patience for flash sales, you could build one.

$1000 all at once vs. a hundred here and there over time.

Building is definitely an option as well, just havent looked in a lot of places besides PSA yet.

 

[Ronald_55]

Well psa has a kit on sale in their freedom week stuff never tried tgeir ar10 stuff

$359

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa10-18-ss-mid-length-rifle-kit.html

Just add a lower.

Betsy Ross lower for $79.99

 

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-betsy-ross-pa-10-i-stand-10-stripped-lower-receiver-preorder-item-4-6-weeks-delivery.html

Even if you swapped the barrel out, I am guessing you would still come out good. 

 

[DaveTN]

I had a DPMS Panther for several years. Sold it and got the DPMS GII Recon. It’s above your budget, but DPMS has several that are below $1K. I’ve never had any issues with them and they are accurate.

I was interested in the M&P when it came out but thought the barrel looked too small. I never did get anyone to give me a diameter on it; just going by pictures. A .308 needs a good barrel.

I haven’t looked at the cost of building one in a long time. But it used to be it would probably cost you more to build than buy a complete rifle due to lack of a standard. I don't know if that still holds true or not.

Good luck in your search. In my opinion a .308 AR comes closer than anything else to being the answer to the question, “If I could only have one rifle, what would it be” question. It can do it all.

[KahrMan]

I can think of one to consider....

 

 

[reed1285]

1 hour ago, KahrMan said:

I can think of one to consider....

 

 

I still havent shot the Marlin 35 I bought from you! 

[Alleycat72]

I have a Savage msr 10. I got it thinking it was so cheap and light that I could afford to mod it out if needed. So here it goes.

Trigger is heavy. Got a new one.

But stock sucks. Got a new one.

Replace the grip with a modified standard one.

The barrel had chatter. Fire lapped it.

Flash hider was near impossible to get off.

It is now a bad ass working rifle. I've killed hogs at night in Texas and South Carolina. I run it on nuisance permits in Tennessee. It runs like a top. The fire lapping was a must everything else was for comfort. I'm behind the rifle 2 to 3 times a week for 2.5-3 hours at a time. If you get one I would put about $300 into it. 

 

[reed1285]

5 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

I have a Savage msr 10. I got it thinking it was so cheap and light that I could afford to mod it out if needed. So here it goes.

Trigger is heavy. Got a new one.

But stock sucks. Got a new one.

Replace the grip with a modified standard one.

The barrel had chatter. Fire lapped it.

Flash hider was near impossible to get off.

It is now a bad ass working rifle. I've killed hogs at night in Texas and South Carolina. I run it on nuisance permits in Tennessee. It runs like a top. The fire lapping was a must everything else was for comfort. I'm behind the rifle 2 to 3 times a week for 2.5-3 hours at a time. If you get one I would put about $300 into it. 

 

Thanks for your input!

[Alleycat72]

How it looks now.

[billyblazes]

Something to consider is whether or not you will want to use the gun suppressed.   I knew I wanted the option of running the gun with or without the silencer.  If you're not going to shoot at all with a silencer, don't waste your time reading the rest of my post.

I started by trying out a friend's DPMS Super SASS.  It was a no go for running suppressed reliably.  DPMS rep mentioned that I could change out the gas block, but I wasn't finding any options in that regard that appealed to me. 

I moved on and purchased a Rock River.  No success with that platform either.  I did change out the gas block on that gun.  The replacement gas block used a set screw to adjust the amount of gas.  It was a poor system requiring an allen wrench for switching between suppressed and not suppressed.  As the thread coating that was to be applied to the set screw began to wear off due to going from the suppressed setting and back to the non-suppressed number of turns, consistency of the setting went out the window.  That had me move on to an Adams Arms piston driven AR-10. 

The Adams Arms gun was just an all around disaster.  I sent it in for warranty repair.  It came back, eventually, no better than when it had went in.  I was fortunate that when the dealer who recommended and sold me the gun saw the issues even after having the gun sent in and he personally following up with Adam Arms to find out what the hold up was in getting the gun fixed and returned, he gave me a full refund for that turd.

On the advice of another friend who will only buy firearms used by major police forces or military, I purchased a Sig 716 DMR.  It was more money than I wanted to spend but I guess it is another testimony to getting what you pay for.  The gas block adjusts just as it does on my 516.  It has 4 settings.  Push in a small detent and twist the knob to the proper setting.  Very simple and precise to go from non-suppressed to suppressed.  I do know of one for sale in Florida listed on the Florida Shooters Network.  He is asking $2k for everything it came with as new.  He has a nice optic he is selling separately.  It has been listed for months.  Maybe he's ready to reduce the price even further.

[reed1285]

7 hours ago, billyblazes said:

Something to consider is whether or not you will want to use the gun suppressed.   I knew I wanted the option of running the gun with or without the silencer.  If you're not going to shoot at all with a silencer, don't waste your time reading the rest of my post.

I started by trying out a friend's DPMS Super SASS.  It was a no go for running suppressed reliably.  DPMS rep mentioned that I could change out the gas block, but I wasn't finding any options in that regard that appealed to me. 

I moved on and purchased a Rock River.  No success with that platform either.  I did change out the gas block on that gun.  The replacement gas block used a set screw to adjust the amount of gas.  It was a poor system requiring an allen wrench for switching between suppressed and not suppressed.  As the thread coating that was to be applied to the set screw began to wear off due to going from the suppressed setting and back to the non-suppressed number of turns, consistency of the setting went out the window.  That had me move on to an Adams Arms piston driven AR-10. 

The Adams Arms gun was just an all around disaster.  I sent it in for warranty repair.  It came back, eventually, no better than when it had went in.  I was fortunate that when the dealer who recommended and sold me the gun saw the issues even after having the gun sent in and he personally following up with Adam Arms to find out what the hold up was in getting the gun fixed and returned, he gave me a full refund for that turd.

On the advice of another friend who will only buy firearms used by major police forces or military, I purchased a Sig 716 DMR.  It was more money than I wanted to spend but I guess it is another testimony to getting what you pay for.  The gas block adjusts just as it does on my 516.  It has 4 settings.  Push in a small detent and twist the knob to the proper setting.  Very simple and precise to go from non-suppressed to suppressed.  I do know of one for sale in Florida listed on the Florida Shooters Network.  He is asking $2k for everything it came with as new.  He has a nice optic he is selling separately.  It has been listed for months.  Maybe he's ready to reduce the price even further.

Thanks for your input! Id love to have a Sig 716, but as you suggested it is just more than I can swing right now. 

[DaveTN]

To make a .308 Winchester subsonic you have to neuter it. Isn’t a neutered .308 a .300 BLK that can be built on a standard AR-15 lower?

 

[Grayfox54]

Forget AR-10s. if you want to shoot 308s (7.62x51) get yourself an M1A. You won't regret it. 

[btq96r]

My old boss bought a PSA AR-10 (his first AR actually) at my recommendation, put a good Vortex optic on it, and he says it's breaking in nicely.  Seems like a good entry to .308 with an AR at a reasonable value.  If you like it, you can keep getting better on it while you save up for one more high speed.

[Chucktshoes]

2 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

Forget AR-10s. if you want to shoot 308s (7.62x51) get yourself an M1A. You won't regret it. 

Nah. FAL or a G3 pattern rifle would be the way to go. 

[Ronald_55]

You could al ways go with a 24"barrel. Lol

 

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bca-ar-10-barrel-24-4150-black-nitride-bull-barrel-308-rifle-length-gas-system-w-1-10-twist

[Mark A]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

To make a .308 Winchester subsonic you have to neuter it. Isn’t a neutered .308 a .300 BLK that can be built on a standard AR-15 lower?

 

Who said subsonic?

I have a M&P 10. Put a Gisselle trigger in it. It runs great.

[reed1285]

9 hours ago, Ronald_55 said:

You could al ways go with a 24"barrel. Lol

 

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bca-ar-10-barrel-24-4150-black-nitride-bull-barrel-308-rifle-length-gas-system-w-1-10-twist

Wonder what the weight on that bad boy is? Lol.

Nutnfancy seems to really dig the S&W M&P 10. He gave it a great review, watched it yesterday. The Sport version rings in at around $850. Not too bad..

[Ronald_55]

1 hour ago, reed1285 said:

Wonder what the weight on that bad boy is? Lol.

Nutnfancy seems to really dig the S&W M&P 10. He gave it a great review, watched it yesterday. The Sport version rings in at around $850. Not too bad..

 

3.1000 lbs. Lol

I always get the feeling we should stop with 'nut' when I see his stuff.......

[I40Bandit]

Might not be your thing to build your own, but I'll just throw this out there. A 308 upper is comparable in cost. The spare $520 would get you a good optic and even a drop in trigger. Of course the lower needs to be finish milled, but you could sell it (unfinished of course, value is about $75 retail) and buy a finished one. My 'cheap' 308 build groups better than my factory DPMS, though the DPMS has a more milspec like FCG while the other has a 3lbs single stage drop in. My build has a pretty cheap bear creek stainless 18".

If brand names make you feel comfortable, I understand. Just an option.

Discount via save5now code. Shipping free.

[DaveTN]

19 hours ago, Mark A said:

Who said subsonic?

So you are going to spend hundreds (closer to a grand) to suppress a .308 and leave it supersonic? Whats the point?

[Garufa]

39 minutes ago, I40Bandit said:

Might not be your thing to build your own, but I'll just throw this out there. A 308 upper is comparable in cost. The spare $520 would get you a good optic and even a drop in trigger. Of course the lower needs to be finish milled, but you could sell it (unfinished of course, value is about $75 retail) and buy a finished one. My 'cheap' 308 build groups better than my factory DPMS, though the DPMS has a more milspec like FCG while the other has a 3lbs single stage drop in. My build has a pretty cheap bear creek stainless 18".

If brand names make you feel comfortable, I understand. Just an option.

Discount via save5now code. Shipping free.

The only problem with building an AR-10 is there is no standard, much less “milspec”.  It can be daunting for someone who doesn’t want to deal with figuring out all the nuances of manufacturer gen this and manufacturer gen that, and general compatibility of parts.

Buying one already made with no intention of a lot of changes might be the way to go for some.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Garufa

[TomInMN]

48 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

So you are going to spend hundreds (closer to a grand) to suppress a .308 and leave it supersonic? Whats the point?

Since you ask, a suppressor used with a supersonic load can still muffle the sound of the detonation even though it doesn't work on the supersonic crack. It can also add a bit of speed over the same load fired unsuppressed, and a good suppressor added to the right gun/ load combination can actually improve the groups.

A suppressor also works to make both the audible and visual signature of the shot more difficult to pin down.

As far as the original observation, that someone who primarily intends to shoot 308 subsonic would be better served by 300 blk, I largely agree. When limiting to subsonic loads, the 300 blk case is more efficient and can be had in a smaller, lighter rifle while not giving up any energy to the 308 (again, when both are shot at the same speed).

[I40Bandit]

32 minutes ago, Garufa said:

The only problem with building an AR-10 is there is no standard, much less “milspec”.  It can be daunting for someone who doesn’t want to deal with figuring out all the nuances of manufacturer gen this and manufacturer gen that, and general compatibility of parts.

Buying one already made with no intention of a lot of changes might be the way to go for some.

True, there are options/incompatibility you have to be careful about. Gen 1/2 DPMS, thin/thick tang (low/high rail) and even extra high rail, true AR Armalite vs. DPMS pattern. Majority of the build your own stuff is DPMS Gen 1 LR-308....then I would say Armalite AR-10 (try not to conflate the LR's and AR's...though even sellers will mislabel)...then if you search hard you'll find DPMS Gen2 stuff.

 

Fully understandable that it can be daunting. It was at first for me too. The parts I posted above will all work together.