paying taxes is nor required by our Constitution

[Guest jackdog]

Writing things on forms doesn't work. There aren't any magic words that will make a judge rule against the IRS. The judge is subject to audit too, remember?

writing on the form. I totally disagree

If you want to fight the IRS, don't do it in court, especially Tax Court. You're walking into a buzz saw.

Nothing important comes easily and fighting a tyrannical is damn important

Fight it in Washington with your elected representatives.

We have certainly seen how well that has worked over the last 90 years.

Good luck with that.

[enfield]

I hold to the belief that our tax system is illegal, the government collects our monies via intimidation., and that is tyranny.

I agree with you, and the IRS is going to pound you into the ground.

edited to add: and the sheeple won't notice or care.

Edited February 9, 2009 by enfield

[Guest Traumaslave]

The IRS is not a government entity, they are their own business. Another argument is the Paper Reduction Act which states all governmental paper work must have a #, ie.. 4473. There is no such # on IRS papers. I have a Doctor friend who hasn't paid taxes in about 12 yrs now, based on this.

[Reservoir Dog]

First off read the constitution income tax as described is corporate not individual. Are you a corporation?

The 16th amendment was never ratified do some research (IE the law that never was)

In typical fashion, you keep making all these statements, yet you conveniently fail to produce any proof whatsoever to support your statements. I know you believe this stuff in your head, but where is the actual proof.

Please list the part of the Constitution that defines income tax as corporate. Article/Section/Amendment?

Please list the part of the Constitution that says you cannot pay your taxes until your grievances are addressed. Article/Section/Amendment?

Please tell us how the 16th Amendment was not ratified. It looks to me like it was. I know you are going to claim the Ohio statehood arguement, or debate punctuation and grammar, or some other nonsense. But let's hear it anyway.

[Reservoir Dog]

Where is title 26 is the regulation that requires you to pay taxes? It does not exist.

26 USC 6151(a) would seem disagree with you:

(a) General rule Except as otherwise provided in this subchapter, when a return of tax is required under this title or regulations, the person required to make such return shall, without assessment or notice and demand from the Secretary, pay such tax to the internal revenue officer with whom the return is filed, and shall pay such tax at the time and place fixed for filing the return (determined without regard to any extension of time for filing the return).

I am sure you have some delusion as to why this does not apply to you, so let's hear it. And please post the proof (law, constitution) as to why it would not apply. Edited February 9, 2009 by Reservoir Dog

[G27]

I disagree not paying taxes that are illegal is very constitutional. The founding fathers were very specific as to what the federal government was charged to do.

Bingo. If you don't like where your tax dollars go, don't violate the constitution by refusing to pay, change the government!

The problem isn't them taxing us - it's very plain that 16A allows that - it's that the fed gov't has trampled 10A.

[Guest jackdog]

I agree with you, and the IRS is going to pound you into the ground.

edited to add: and the sheeple won't notice or care.

Perhaps but until that happens it is only opinion. However if you choose not to fight against a tyrannical government, then you are choosing to be a sheeple.

[Guest jackdog]

Writing things on forms doesn't work. There aren't any magic words that will make a judge rule against the IRS. The judge is subject to audit too, remember?

If you want to fight the IRS, don't do it in court, especially Tax Court. You're walking into a buzz saw.

Fight it in Washington with your elected representatives.

Allow me to enlighten you sir. It does work and here is why you are totally incorrect. the 1040 instruction booklets provided by the IRS give you a written Myranda warning.

Our current tax system is not Compulsorily it is voluntary.

When you submit a w4 via your employer or a form 1040 at tax time you do so on a voluntary basis.

If you write on these forms that they are not being submitted on a voluntary basis, then the IRS cannot by law use them against you in a court of law.

Example: An Leo arrests you and gives you, your Myranda warning. He then asks you questions. if you answer you are giving him information on a voluntary basis. Same with you tax's. Never volunteer.

[Guest jackdog]

Good luck with that one - the courts have ruled over and over again that the 16thA does apply to personal income/wages.

Of course they have and every F**king federal judge that has done this should be jailed for a violation of there constitutional oath. Bear in mind that we are talking about wholesale extortion of every US tax payer. We are Also talking about a government that has become totally tyrannical to we the people. Because a asshat politician passes a law does not make it a legal law Under the US constitution. Because a judge mis-interpaps a law either via stupidy and or gross negligence does not mean he or his ruling is correct.

Currently there are a number of cases pending review in the upper courts on all of these issues. I do appreciate you good wishs

[Guest jackdog]

In typical fashion, you keep making all these statements, yet you conveniently fail to produce any proof whatsoever to support your statements. I know you believe this stuff in your head, but where is the actual proof.

Please list the part of the Constitution that defines income tax as corporate. Article/Section/Amendment?

Please list the part of the Constitution that says you cannot pay your taxes until your grievances are addressed. Article/Section/Amendment?

Please tell us how the 16th Amendment was not ratified. It looks to me like it was. I know you are going to claim the Ohio statehood arguement, or debate punctuation and grammar, or some other nonsense. But let's hear it anyway.

Pardon me I did mis speak. I was heading to wages not corporate taxes wages by our Constitution are corporate not personnel. The 16 th amendment never changed wages as defined in the us constitution. Show me where I am incorrect.

As for non ratification. If an when a state changes the original amendment to be ratified it is becomes void due to the change. yes this includes verbiage,punctuation and grammar,the rules set forth in the Constitution are very stringent.

If if fact The 16 Amendment was ratified why have the federal courts refused to allow evidence to the contrary to be admitted into evidence.

[Guest jackdog]

26 USC 6151(a) would seem disagree with you:

I am sure you have some delusion as to why this does not apply to you, so let's hear it. And please post the proof (law, constitution) as to why it would not apply.

Once again why has the federal government refused time and time again to show where in the tax code it states that an individual has to pay taxes.

What is USC26 6151(a). Is it a law? if Not is it back by the force of law.

[strickj]

Your kidding me right.

Well let's see

! I was born in the good old USA.

I'm following the letter of the law and the US constitution.

Next question.

You dont pay taxes.

Illegals dont pay taxes.

Kinda funny to me that you list you were/are in the military considering that taxes pay for the military,and military wages.

Whats all the Repubs say again? Something like,if you dont pay for it,you cant have it.

So,incense you shouldn't have access to roads,schools,first responders,and freedom,and so on......after all you dont pay for it....

ETA; I have heard on the news several times from people doing what you are,and its a funny thing really!

Ill also add,that I hope and prey(and I'm not that religious) that you never need anything from Social Security(retirement,disability,Medicare,etc).If you do,I also prey that you post that big`ole F-you letter they send you

Edited February 9, 2009 by strickj

[Guest jackdog]

Bingo. If you don't like where your tax dollars go, don't violate the constitution by refusing to pay, change the government!

The problem isn't them taxing us - it's very plain that 16A allows that - it's that the fed gov't has trampled 10A.

!. As previously posted I do not feel that I am violating the constitution. I feel that the government is violating the constitution, I disagree with your acceptance of the 16th Amendment.

2. I totally agree with your assessment of our government and the tenth amendment

3. Let's not forget 1st Amendment (free speech zones) or the un-patriot act. So if you believe as I do that our Government has and is abusing their authority, exactly what is it that makes you think that the IRS is so damn legal. and we are not being abused by it.

[Reservoir Dog]

Pardon me I did mis speak. I was heading to wages not corporate taxes wages by our Constitution are corporate not personnel. The 16 th amendment never changed wages as defined in the us constitution. Show me where I am incorrect.

As for non ratification. If an when a state changes the original amendment to be ratified it is becomes void due to the change. yes this includes verbiage,punctuation and grammar,the rules set forth in the Constitution are very stringent.

If if fact The 16 Amendment was ratified why have the federal courts refused to allow evidence to the contrary to be admitted into evidence.

Once again, you are just throwing out words while refusing to back up your claims. Okay, you misspoke. I will still ask you to back up your claims:

Please post where in the Constitution that wages are only defined as being corporate. Article/Section/Amendment?

Please post where in the Constitution it says that verbiage, grammar and punctuation mistakes invalidate an Amendment. Article/Section/Amendment? Article V of the Constitution deals with the amendment process, and I see nothing in there about that. What rules in the Constitution are you talking about. Article/Section/Amendment?

I can't speak for exactly why federal courts have refused to allow evidence, but I would imagine it is because no such evidence exists, and any claims are spurious and without merit. Please post the names of these court cases and I will give them a look.

[Reservoir Dog]

Once again why has the federal government refused time and time again to show where in the tax code it states that an individual has to pay taxes.

What is USC26 6151(a). Is it a law? if Not is it back by the force of law.

I don't know why they won't show you the law. I just did, so now you know. You asked where in Title 26 it says you must pay taxes, I posted it.

Yes, Title 26 is law, and it has the force of law. Title 26 USC 7201:

§ 7201. Attempt to evade or defeat tax

Any person who willfully attempts in any manner to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $100,000 ($500,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution.

[TGO David]

Closing this thread. Explanation follows.

[TGO David]

Per the Code of Conduct : Rule #5 this thread is closed.

I am not nor will I be sucked into some farcical debate over whether or not a Federal Income Tax is legal. The fact of the matter is that countless court cases have sided with the Federal Government on this issue and judgments made against tax evaders have born out that taxes shall be paid or there will be consequences.

Frankly, it is my opinion that regardless of whether you agree how your money is being spent by the Government, it is still your patriotic civic duty to pay taxes if you earn wages. Each of us in some way benefits from projects that tax dollars have funded partially or in full. Whether it be something as simple as driving on a public roadway, attending a public school, using the US Postal Service or indirectly benefiting from the arrest of known criminals by your local and/or Federal law enforcement officers, or the continual protection afforded us by our men and women in the Armed Forces.

Anyone who refuses to pay unto Cesar what is Cesar's cannot consider themselves a citizen. Patriot in your own mind, perhaps, but not a citizen.

I would recommend that the original poster consult with a competent attorney and financial adviser at his earliest convenience. He, and anyone else who may be engaging in similar practices, will eventually need legal representation.

Regardless, TGO is not the place to discuss illegal activities. There are plenty of fringe forums for that sort of thing.