paying taxes is nor required by our Constitution

[Guest nraforlife]

We ALL have a civic duty to pay the government as much as it wants in order to spread the bounty of this country to those less fortunate. Its just not right to have someone work hard and make more money than the government thinks is needed while someone less 'fortunate' goes without their 52 inch flat screen.

[Guest bkelm18]

We ALL have a civic duty to pay the government as much as it wants in order to spread the bounty of this country to those less fortunate. Its just not right to have someone work hard and make more money than the government thinks is needed while someone less 'fortunate' goes without their 52 inch flat screen.

Do you pay your taxes?

[VERO1]

Isn't this what Wesley Snipes tried to do? His case didn't work out so well. Also if I recall correctly the Freemen in Montana also tried something along these lines. Again, didn't work out so well.

I'm thinking legal fees would be more than the taxes to begin with.

[strickj]

We ALL have a civic duty to pay the government as much as it wants in order to spread the bounty of this country to those less fortunate. Its just not right to have someone work hard and make more money than the government thinks is needed while someone less 'fortunate' goes without their 52 inch flat screen.

Yeah,welfare,thats where all that money goes.

Oh,and my above post was a serious question that Id like to get answered JD

[Guest nraforlife]

Do you pay your taxes?

Oh yeah, I pay and pay and pay....

[Guest m&pc9]

Do you get all your money back? Or just some of your money back? Most of us fell HAPPY if we just don't have to pay, but truth is the IRS,as well as other government agencies, start taking $$$ out of our paychecks on January 1st and don't stop until December 31. I am sure they are not real concerned about 1 or a few of us not paying taxes but it might make adifference if a million or so did. But I do not understand how the average working man can not pay taxes, our employer is REQUIRED to take takes out of the paycheck. Can someone explain how?

I have alway heard if you claim 6 or more on your w2 then they don't take out FICA. That is how illegals are doing it. They steal someone ss# and then claim 10 on their w2 and FICA is $0, They still pay Social Security and Medicare.

[BryanP]

The founding fathers, in an act of the Continental Congress in 1774, said, and I quote:

"If money is wanted by Rulers who have in any manner oppressed the People, [the People] may retain [their money] until their grievances are redressed, and thus peaceably procure relief, without trusting to despised petitions or disturbing the public tranquility."

This very American Right of Redress of Grievances Before Taxes is deeply embedded in our law.

The founding fathers could hardly have used words more clear when they declared, "the people … may retain [their money] until their grievances are [remedied]."

It can be mentioned in 1774 all they want. Is it specifically outlined in the Constitution as ratified? If not, good luck with that.

[enfield]

I'm thinking legal fees would be more than the taxes to begin with.

ONLY if you make the lawyer independently wealthy.

Barring that much money on the table, no lawyer will represent you except to plead guilty. A lawyer won't present an argument that the government is violating the Constitution on fear of being disbarred or audited yearly for life.

When it comes to court, you can argue your case yourself or beg for mercy. It really makes no difference which - you get the same result.

Edited February 8, 2009 by enfield

[Guest m&pc9]

Is this where they get the people in that commercial "I owed the IRS $200000 and they settled for $2000" Call Roni Duetze

Watch BAD language

[ame]

[/ame]

[Guest grimel]

I dunno, I'd sure like for Jackdog to point it out to me (and answer the question regarding hearing from the IRS).

Also, the 16thA gives congress the right to levy income taxes, so all you can do is hope to put off the inevitable.

As you so aptly point out, the Constitution was amended to allow an income tax. All you can hope to do is minimize the damages. Doing as Jackdog has done pretty much asking for an audit at some point when they think he has enough to take.

[G27]

As you so aptly point out, the Constitution was amended to allow an income tax. All you can hope to do is minimize the damages. Doing as Jackdog has done pretty much asking for an audit at some point when they think he has enough to take.

Even worse, not paying income tax is unconstitutional!

We may hate it, but unless we amend the constitution otherwise, it's as much a part of it as the Bill of Rights.

[Fadex]

There are ways to get out of paying taxes. You just have to be prepared for the consequences. You can claim a religious exemption and not pay SS or medicare (I think) BUT you can NEVER file a claim and draw either. Personally I'm not qualified to be a clergyman and have no interest in becoming qualified.

You can claim anything you want on your W2. Claim 6 or 60, whatever. In the past I just checked the little box that states that I didn't owe taxes last year and I don't expect to this year (Intern in college, broke didn't even describe it). Your employer won't deduct FICA but you will still owe it all at the end of the year regardless of what you put on the form.

Personally I don't mind paying some of the taxes. I understand that roads, sanitary water and sewer, electricity, etc. all cost money to install and maintain. With that said, I think that the school systems think that throwing more money at a problem is the solution to all problems. I have a problem with that. For god's sake expand a school before you build a new one, just ONCE, please. And I don't mean throw another trailer out back and use it for a classroom either. Sorry - different rant.

[Guest HexHead]

I have alway heard if you claim 6 or more on your w2 then they don't take out FICA. That is how illegals are doing it. They steal someone ss# and then claim 10 on their w2 and FICA is $0, They still pay Social Security and Medicare.

FICA is social security.

[Guest HexHead]

Is this where they get the people in that commercial "I owed the IRS $200000 and they settled for $2000" Call Roni Duetze

I bet she's a real ball buster.

[Guest m&pc9]

FICA is social security.

Im sorry I meant Federal withholding

[Guest jackdog]

While I will not argue the legality of not paying taxes (we have to do countless other things that are not required under the Constitution), I will say this much - since my taxes get withheld, and there is no easy way to prevent that, I, and people like me, still have to pay/file.

You can legally file an exempt w4 form.

So the Irs can not at a later date use the form against you Do the following.

On the back of your w4 write

I am not filling this voluntarily, I am filing this form so i can get paid.

Incidentally what is being withheld is not taxes based on the constitution.

[enfield]

Writing things on forms doesn't work. There aren't any magic words that will make a judge rule against the IRS. The judge is subject to audit too, remember?

If you want to fight the IRS, don't do it in court, especially Tax Court. You're walking into a buzz saw.

Fight it in Washington with your elected representatives.

[Guest jackdog]

We don't GIVE them the money - the b@stards take it!

I totally agree with b@stards.

I totally disagree with they take it. They don't take anything you give it to them voluntarily. Where is title 26 is the regulation that requires you to pay taxes? It does not exist.

Wages as defined by the constitution are corporate not not individual. The 16 amendment never re defined wages as being personnel.

So you are volunteering to do two things. one give them your money and do become their slave

[G27]

Wages as defined by the constitution are corporate not not individual. The 16 amendment never re defined wages as being personnel.

Good luck with that one - the courts have ruled over and over again that the 16thA does apply to personal income/wages.

[Guest jackdog]

Getting some money back is better than being arrested for tax evasion.

As of date all. Yes I have received threatening IRS letters.

I had a meeting with the IRS a few years ago. They said I owed XXXXX dollars. I said fine and produced my check book. Ithen asked the agent what law or regulation says I have to pay taxes so I could note it on the check.

He could not tell me. I asked him to get the head of his office to give me that information. He left the meeting for 45 minutes, returned and told me the meeting was over for the time being and I would receive a certified letter at a letter date. Never got a letter but did get my Refund.

[Guest jackdog]

So,whats the difference in you,and an illegal alien?

Your kidding me right.

Well let's see

! I was born in the good old USA.

I'm following the letter of the law and the US constitution.

Next question.

[Guest jackdog]

As you so aptly point out, the Constitution was amended to allow an income tax. All you can hope to do is minimize the damages. Doing as Jackdog has done pretty much asking for an audit at some point when they think he has enough to take.

First off read the constitution wages are a corporate tax not an individual tax. Are you a corporation?

The 16th amendment was never ratified do some research (IE the law that never was)

Nor does the 16 amendment change the definition of wages.

Edited February 9, 2009 by jackdog

[Guest bkelm18]

Yes well, you may think you are being cute and clever, but you won't win. Others have tried, and failed. It may not be this year, or the next, but sooner or later, the IRS/Federal Gov't is gonna take a big 'ol steamer on you and it ain't gonna be pretty.

[G27]

First off read the constitution income tax as described is corporate not individual. Are you a corporation?

The 16th amendment was never ratified do some research (IE the law that never was)

Nor does the 16 amendment change the definition of wages.

Oh, here we go.

Look, no where in 16A does it say that income is corporate. In fact, it says income "from whatever source derived":

Amendment XVI

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Now, what has me confused here is you initially said:

Be aware that I'm not refusing to pay my taxes, I'm refusing to pay my taxes until such time that the government addresses my grievances. This our right under the constitution.

Which is untrue, of course, as there's nothing in the US Constitution which says you have the right to refuse paying taxes until the government addresses your grievances. If I'm wrong, please show me this in our constitution (stuff from the Articles of Confederation doesn't count).

But now you're saying that income taxes are illegal and unconstitutional. So which is it? Are you will to pay this 'unconstitutional tax' but need for the government to "address your grievances" first or are you fighting this 'unconstitutional tax'?

I've always found it humorous that people fight this like crazy as if it hasn't been heard by the courts many times...

Tax lawyer Alan O. Dixler has written:

Each year some misguided souls refuse to pay their federal income tax liability on the theory that the 16th Amendment was never properly ratified, or on the theory that the 16th Amendment lacks an enabling clause. Not surprisingly, neither the IRS nor the courts have exhibited much patience for that sort of thing. If, strictly for the purposes of this discussion, the 16th Amendment could be disregarded, the taxpayers making those frivolous claims would still be subject to the income tax. In the first place, income from personal services is taxable without apportionment in the absence of the 16th Amendment. Pollock specifically endorsed Springer's holding that such income could be taxed without apportionment. The second Pollock decision invalidated the entire 1894 income tax act, including its tax on personal services income, due to inseverability; but, unlike the 1894 act, the current code contains a severability provision. Also, given the teaching of Graves [i.e., Graves v. New York ex rel. O'Keefe, 306 U.S. 466 (1939)] -- that the theory that taxing income from a particular source is, in effect, taxing the source itself is untenable -- the holding in Pollock that taxing income from property is the same thing as taxing the property as such cannot be viewed as good law. (from Wikipedia)

[Guest jackdog]

Even worse, not paying income tax is unconstitutional!

We may hate it, but unless we amend the constitution otherwise, it's as much a part of it as the Bill of Rights.

I disagree not paying taxes that are illegal is very constitutional. The founding fathers were very specific as to what the federal government was charged to do.

By paying taxes you allow the federal government to give your money to people who do not want to work I.E. welfare.

You give your money so the government can give it to farmers, automakers Bankers insurance companies. that is corporate Welfare.

By giving your money you allow the government to give money to foreign countries, I guess that's world welfare.

By giving your money you allow the federal government to participate in the UN. one of the prime goals of the UN is to remove all firearms from private individuals and to usurp the laws of the US constitution

So I suggest that any one that bows to the illegal tax laws is anything but a true patriot.

For years I was under the same misconception. As you for years I let my dollars usurp what the founding fathers gave us and many fine patriots have died for. No Sir I am a patriot in the truest since of the word. For I am 110% against tyranny the main thing that the founding fathers broke away from England for.

I hold to the belief that our tax system is illegal, the government collects our monies via intimidation., and that is tyranny.