New law passed for carry permits?

[quedz]

 

[ted]

Ok this is getting confusing to me I have a lifetime handgun carry permit . What does that mean for me ? When I took my class it was through the sheriffs office years ago then renewed so on and so on then when the lifetime started I got the lifetime license. Do I need the enhanced permit to be able to go to parks etc. now ? Will I need to go through the corse again to get this special enhanced permit and do they have a lifetime enhanced permit , it’s got me all confused . I’ve taken the test I’ve did the test at the range I’ve done the finger printing, does that mean I am a advanced hand gun carry permit holder , or do I have to get another license.

Edited August 5, 2019 by ted

[DaveTN]

21 minutes ago, ted said:

Ok this is getting confusing to me I have a lifetime handgun carry permit . What does that mean for me ? When I took my class it was through the sheriffs office years ago then renewed so on and so on then when the lifetime started I got the lifetime license. Do I need the enhanced permit to be able to go to parks etc. now ? Will I need to go through the corse again to get this special enhanced permit and do they have a lifetime enhanced permit , it’s got me all confused 

Your permit will become an enhanced permit. The new permits will be different; they won’t be HCP, they will be CCP. You won’t have to do anything.

[ted]

1 minute ago, DaveTN said:

Your permit will become an enhanced permit. The new permits will be different; they won’t be HCP, they will be CCP. You won’t have to do anything.

So I would be legal to carry concealed or open and be able to carry in enhanced situations, schools etc. even though it does not say enhanced on my permit

[DaveTN]

1 minute ago, ted said:

So I would be legal to carry concealed or open and be able to carry in enhanced situations, schools etc. even though it does not say enhanced on my permit

No...You have the most advanced carry permit you can have in this state. But you can’t carry in a school.

[ted]

I understand the school some schools have church on weekends and it’s still not allowed. I ment parks sorry .

Edited August 5, 2019 by ted

[chances R]

It is not a down-graded permit.  Same as it has always been.  Couldn't carry in or on school property regardless of name.  If church is in a school, still no carry allowed.

[Ron Padilla]

So, Ok then I had to do a change of address and cannot remember when I did my renewal but have had the permit for 6.5 years now.  The date on my permit is the date I did the change of address which was 7/11, and it only goes to 9/6/25, it must have been last year when I renewed it but don't recall if it was 7or 8 years but from what is said here it will upgrade to the new fangled permit at the first of the year!  please esplain again!

Thanks

just to add what is kind of strange when we moved and did the change of addy thing my license came back as a duplicate with the added comment of, NOT FOR FEDERAL IDENTIFICATION!  AND ONE KNOW WHATS UP WITH THAT,  I haven't contacted DMV for them to esp!

Edited August 9, 2019 by Ron Padilla

[Garufa]

9 minutes ago, Ron Padilla said:

So, Ok then I had to do a change of address and cannot remember when I did my renewal but have had the permit for 6.5 years now.  The date on my permit is the date I did the change of address which was 7/11, and it only goes to 9/6/25, it must have been last year when I renewed it but don't recall if it was 7or 8 years but from what is said here it will upgrade to the new fangled permit at the first of the year!  please esplain again!

Thanks

Whenever this takes effect:

HCP today = “Enhanced” Permit.

You’ll renew by the expiration date shown on your current HCP permit but who knows what kind of complications they’ll cook up by then.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Garufa

[DaveTN]

3 hours ago, Ron Padilla said:

So, Ok then I had to do a change of address and cannot remember when I did my renewal but have had the permit for 6.5 years now.  The date on my permit is the date I did the change of address which was 7/11, and it only goes to 9/6/25, it must have been last year when I renewed it but don't recall if it was 7or 8 years but from what is said here it will upgrade to the new fangled permit at the first of the year!  please esplain again!

Thanks

just to add what is kind of strange when we moved and did the change of addy thing my license came back as a duplicate with the added comment of, NOT FOR FEDERAL IDENTIFICATION!  AND ONE KNOW WHATS UP WITH THAT,  I haven't contacted DMV for them to esp!

Doesn't matter when you renewed your HCP it will be ENHANCED as long as you don't let it lapse. 

For your DL there is a new federal security gig called REAL ID. Your DL may still be good, but isn't REAL ID. After sometime in 2020 you wont be able to fly on that DL. You need a new one, passport, or some other form of acceptable ID.

[Ron Padilla]

ok Thanks!!

[m16ty]

On 7/15/2019 at 10:08 AM, DaveTN said:

I feel comfortable discussing Illinois gun laws because I know them. That does not include Chicago or Cook County. I’ll give you my opinion, but you need to do the research if you are entering Cook County.

Chicago and Cook County has routinely thumbed their nose at not only the Attorney General of the State of Illinois, but the SCOTUS.

Chicago finally conceded that state laws trumps their law and there are no magazine limitations.

Illinois allows cities and counties to pass their own gun laws. But they require them to notify the state and have them posted in a public area. This link is that area for information on any city or county you may be going into.

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/MunicipalOrdinances.aspx

Illinois law does not require you to notify an Officer you are carrying if you are stopped. It does require you to answer truthfully if you are stopped and asked.

Your carry permit only covers you in your vehicle. If you exit that vehicle carrying a loaded gun; you are committing a crime.

You will find that most of the LEO's in Illinois are very professional and polite, that includes the Illinois State Police on the highways, who have an excellent reputation. That does not include the Chicago PD. If you get stopped by them don’t become stupid; most of the stories you have heard about them are probably true.

I hope this helps, have a nice trip.

EDIT: I should probably add that my comments above assume a Tennessee HCP. If you do not have an HCP or do not have it on your person to hand to the Officer; you can’t have a loaded gun in your vehicle in Illinois.

A couple of years ago I was traveling to a business meeting that was planned to happen in East Chicago, IN. At the last minute they changed the meeting to the main office in Chicago, IL. I had my gun because I was good in IN, I was so scared of going into Chicago with a loaded firearm, I completely disassembled the gun and put the parts in different places inside my truck. It may have been overkill but I've heard horror stories of people carrying guns in Chicago.  

[Refleks]

Just saw a post on Facebook advertising the CCP as we approach Jan 1st

 

So essentially people can just do an online thing, then print certificate of completion and go to DMV to pay the fee and that’s it? No shooting test?

My understanding of the HCP was that it was specifically NOT a CCP so that accidental exposure wouldn’t constitute brandishing (and of course people can open carry if they like).  Does that mean accidental exposure of a CCP permit would constitute brandishing? 

 

Does the reciprocity still apply (new CCP going to Kentucky for example)?

 

What is the rationale for allowing HCP to carry in parks but not CCP?

 

I guess I just don’t understand the point of having two separate systems...

[TN Native]

14 hours ago, Refleks said:

I guess I just don’t understand the point of having two separate systems...

I think many of us share your point of view. I still don’t know who thought we really needed a dual system, but I think it is a result of state government officials being afraid to go for constitutional carry. 

[Tiffany Johnson]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:41 AM, Refleks said:

Does the reciprocity still apply (new CCP going to Kentucky for example)?

I spoke to the Handgun Permit Office in Nashville on January 2nd for an update on reciprocity. I was told that all 50 states have been contacted, but so far only 13 states have responded. Of the 13, most were states that already did not recognize TN's permit, so (of course) they simply declined to recognize the new CCP as well. I did not ask about any specific states confirming that they will honor TN's CCP. However, the Handgun Unit did say that one state - North Dakota - has already confirmed that it will honor Tennessee's ENHANCED Carry permit but will NOT honor Tennessee's Concealed Carry Permit. I suspect there might be a few other states that will do the same (recognize the ECP but not the CCP). 

Also, I've seen Facebook posts recently that indicate that reciprocity will be exactly the same across the board for ECP and for CCP. That is false. I did specifically ask about that, and the Handgun Unit confirmed that is false (again, see North Dakota as an example). The Handgun Unit said they could not give me an estimated time or date by which they expect to have complete information about CCP reciprocity.

Bottom line, reciprocity for the new CCP is still being determined. If you want a concrete list of states that recognize the TN permit, and you want to avoid any uncertainty (especially if you travel a lot), I'd just go ahead and go for the ECP.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Tiffany Johnson
more info added

[trevorst]

I just applied for the new concealed permit and honestly my main reason for not going for the enhanced was the inconveniences of the day at the range.  I am prior military (yet somehow not eligible to skip the class...) I shoot roughly 10-15k rounds of pistol a year.... The last thing I wanted was to screw up a Saturday and give someone $65 to teach me how to shoot and give me the abbreviated run down of TN law.

 

DMV was packed with people there for the permit, this is going to be a very popular option.  There only downside I see is loss of revenue for the instructors that didn't get their stuff online.

Edited January 7, 2020 by trevorst

[chances R]

4 hours ago, trevorst said:

I just applied for the new concealed permit and honestly my main reason for not going for the enhanced was the inconveniences of the day at the range.  I am prior military (yet somehow not eligible to skip the class...) I shoot roughly 10-15k rounds of pistol a year.... The last thing I wanted was to screw up a Saturday and give someone $65 to teach me how to shoot and give me the abbreviated run down of TN law.

 

DMV was packed with people there for the permit, this is going to be a very popular option.  There only downside I see is loss of revenue for the instructors that didn't get their stuff online.

First, this class IS NOT a 'shooting class'.  The shooting is simply to document a minimal level of competence with a firearm.  If you shoot as much as you say you do, you should be able to do it blindfolded.  The class does emphasize safety and law.  Being prior military does not prove any of the 3 points.  But the TFA says it best and I will post it here...…..

From TFA newsletter"

"So, should a citizen who wants to carry legally with a permit opt for the original (now enhanced) permit or the “concealed only” permit? The answer is clear – get the original permit.

Why?

First, the original / enhanced permit allows open or concealed carry. Many people do not plan to carry openly so they assume that they can save the $35 dollars and get the concealed only option. However, there are risks to that. Florida and other states have had “concealed only” permits for years. One common problem (that Florida finally fixed) was that some of those statutes do not defined what “concealed only” means. A related problem is that some of those statutes do not address whether “imprinting”, accidental exposure or even unavoidable exposure (such as placing the weapon in your vehicle trunk to secure it at a gun free zone) are allowed or whether such exposures can result in criminal charges. In Florida, prior to its law being rewritten, people could be and were charged with imprinting and incidental exposure of the firearms. Despite the clear need to address a definition of concealment and what happens with imprinting or incidental exposures, Tennessee’s new “concealed only” permit does not address these issues at all. See, Tennessee Code Annotated Section 39-17-1366. Opting to get the “concealed only” Tennessee permit may put someone at risk for criminal charges because the law was poorly (perhaps intentionally) written based on the information we have from other states.

Second, not necessarily in order of significance, is the issue of reciprocity. Right now, about 35 states honor the Tennessee original/enhanced permit. It is not known for certain how many will honor (if at all) the “concealed only” permit. What we do know is that several states changed their reciprocity standards when Tennessee started issuing permits to certain 18-20 years olds a few years ago. It is foreseeable that the training differential between the two Tennessee permits might result in different reciprocity standards as well.

Third, the concealed only permit is not a defense or exception to the same extent that the original/enhanced permit is. One area is with respect to certain schools/universities which do have exceptions for the original/enhanced permits (mainly for employees). Another area impacts hunters who hunt during archery and black powder seasons who should absolutely avoid the concealed only permit.

Fourth, as mentioned above, a citizen can apply for a “lifetime” original / enhanced permit. No such option is presently available for the concealed only permit.

Fifth, involves an issue many citizens don’t consider. The training requirement might become an issue. There are clear differences in required training to get either permit. The training for the original/enhanced permit requires both classroom and range training. The training for the “concealed only” permit may or may not include range training depending on what kind of training the person opts to rely upon (for example, most hunter safety courses require that you at least shoot a gun once). This training may or may not make a difference on the question of whether you were legally carrying a firearm (a criminal law question similar to whether you had a driver’s license). However, if things go bad as they did with the Texas church shooting, the presence or absence of training and what kind of training was involved may make a difference if a third party is injured and brings a civil negligence or recklessness action.

There are many other factors to consider but after the Tennessee Firearms Association looked at the legislation we felt it was best to oppose this new proposed “concealed only” permit as poorly written legislation, legislation that creates needless civil and criminal traps for civilians, and legislation that was unnecessary since Tennessee already had a permitting system that itself just needed a few tweaks such as reducing the application fee or expanding the training options. Rather than do that, however, the legislature made things worse rather than better.

On a positive note, some Tennessee legislators realized then and now that this second option of a concealed only permit was not the path that Tennessee should have been on. Seventeen states including 4 that touch Tennessee have adopted pure constitutional carry laws (no permit required at all). Approximately 30 states, including 7 of the 8 states that touch Tennessee, do not require permits or training if you are openly carrying a firearm. In October 2019, a new bill was filed in Tennessee that would if enacted adopt “constitutional carry” or “permitless carry” in Tennessee but which would still allow people to get the original/enhanced permit for reciprocity. That is what Tennessee’s legislature should have done in 2019. Let’s see what they do in 2020." 

[trevorst]

Sixth:. It keeps instructors with a paycheck....

If TN goes constitutional carry (which they should) then my guess is the permits become one and the same...

 

All of your points are excellent, however so far the only state that isn't buying in is one of the Dakota's to paint a doom and gloom and assume that there will be no reciprocity seems like someone trying to scare people into the other class.  What if other states drop the enhanced reciprocity because of the concealed to avoid confusion... See this is a fear based on nothing but me expressing it.

Right now the concealed permit is a great option and according to family working at the DMV it's a very popular thing already being the main culprit of extended 6-7 hour wait times at the local DMV.

 

As I understand it va can do their course online as well and they reciprocate with 35 states only 2 less than TN.  I'll take my chances with it.