New law passed for carry permits?

[jdw174]

The sheriff here in Henry County told me that a new law had been passed, effective 1 July this year regarding application for carry permits.  He told me that the 8 hour class and qualification had been done away with and that applications would all be done online, requiring only that the applicant fill out the online forms, watch a 30-45 minute video and take a 10-question test, again online.  You would then download a certificate that you passed the test, and take it to the driver exam point.  I've been checking and there's no such setup on the Dept of Safety website.  Has anyone heard anything like this?

[DaveTN]

13 minutes ago, jdw174 said:

The sheriff here in Henry County told me that a new law had been passed, effective 1 July this year regarding application for carry permits.  He told me that the 8 hour class and qualification had been done away with and that applications would all be done online, requiring only that the applicant fill out the online forms, watch a 30-45 minute video and take a 10-question test, again online.  You would then download a certificate that you passed the test, and take it to the driver exam point.  I've been checking and there's no such setup on the Dept of Safety website.  Has anyone heard anything like this?

01-01-2020

BILL SUMMARY

This bill renames the handgun carry permit that is available under present law as the "enhanced handgun carry permit" and creates a new "concealed handgun carry permit". The significant differences between an enhanced handgun carry permit and a concealed handgun carry permit are as follows:

(1) An enhanced handgun carry permit does not specify the manner in which a handgun must be carried. A concealed handgun carry permit will only authorize the holder to carry in a concealed manner;
(2) An applicant for an enhanced handgun carry permit must submit fingerprints, which are used by the TBI and FBI for criminal history background checks. An applicant for a concealed handgun carry permit will only be required to undergo a name-based criminal history record check;
(3) An applicant for an enhanced handgun carry permit must present a photo identification. An applicant for a concealed handgun carry permit may present either a photo identification or other proof satisfactory to the department of safety showing the person's identity and residency;
(4) An enhanced handgun carry permit must be issued on a wallet-sized laminated card and include, among other things, a color photograph of the permit holder. A concealed handgun carry permit may be issued as a letter to the applicant and may be issued without the applicant's photograph;
(5) Subject to certain exceptions for persons who obtain firearm training through the military, a police academy, or armed guard instruction courses, an applicant for an enhanced handgun carry permit must submit proof of the successful completion of a department approved handgun safety course within one year of the date of application. Instead of completing a department approved handgun safety course, an applicant for a concealed handgun carry permit will be required to demonstrate competence with a handgun, which may be accomplished by various forms of experience, including, but not limited to, completion of a hunter safety course, completion of a firearm safety course using instructors certified by the NRA or department of safety, military service, prior issuance of a carry permit, law enforcement or security training, or any other firearm training that the department of safety deems adequate;
(6) The application fee for an enhanced handgun carry permit is $100. There will not be an application fee for a concealed handgun carry permit;
(7) An enhanced handgun carry permit is valid for eight years. A concealed handgun carry permit will be valid for five years;
(8) An enhanced handgun carry permit holder who is within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway, or other similar public place is generally exempt from the present law prohibition against carrying weapons on any property owned, operated, or while in use by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. Such exemption will not apply to concealed handgun carry permit holders; and
(9) A local government may not prohibit an enhanced handgun carry permit holder from possessing a handgun on public property unless the local government provides a security system consisting of metal detectors and inspection by trained personnel for such property. A local government will not be required to provide metal detectors and security inspections in order to prohibit concealed handgun carry permit holders from possessing firearms on public property.

ON APRIL 30, 2019, THE HOUSE ADOPTED AMENDMENTS #2 AND #3 AND PASSED HOUSE BILL 1264, AS AMENDED.

AMENDMENT #2 revises various provision of this bill, as follows:

(1) Requires applicants for a concealed handgun permit to submit two sets of fingerprints, which will be sent to the TBI and the sheriff of the county in which the applicant resides. The sheriff will provide the department with any information regarding the truthfulness of the applicant's answers to eligibility requirements, and the TBI will conduct searches and records checks as provided for in present law;
(2) Revises the training requirements for the concealed permit (discussed above in (5) of the bill summary) to remove the reference to the NRA and instead refer to training that is conducted by a firearms instructor who is certified by the state or an organization specializing in firearms training and safety; to require that the training must have been completed no more than one year prior to the application for the concealed permit; and to remove the provision whereby proof of demonstrated competence will not expire. This amendment also adds factors that the department will consider to determine that a firearms training or safety course class meets the requirements of this bill in regard to the concealed permit;
(3) Adds an concealed permit application fee of $65.00 (under this bill as introduced there was not fee for the permit);
(4) Requires that the concealed permit be a laminated card instead of a letter and specifies the information to be included on the card;
(5) Extends the provisions discussed above in (9) in the bill summary regarding regulation of permit holders by local governments to also apply to concealed carry permits; 
(6) Extends from five years to eight years the period of time for which a concealed carry permit will be valid; and
(7) Changes this bill's effective date from "upon becoming law" to "January 1, 2020".

AMENDMENT #3 adds the following provisions to this bill:

(1) A clarification that the permit holder must display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer; 
(2) Authorization for a state or local law enforcement officer, within the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, to disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer, or another individual. The officer must return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, the permit holder, or another individual; provided, that the permit holder has not violated this section or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder; and
(3) A requirement for an applicant to provide a signed printed copy of a form provided by the department stating that the applicant has read and understands the current state law on carrying handguns.

Edited July 7, 2019 by DaveTN

[chances R]

2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

(8) An enhanced handgun carry permit holder who is within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway, or other similar public place is generally exempt from the present law prohibition against carrying weapons on any property owned, operated, or while in use by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. Such exemption will not apply to concealed handgun carry permit holders; and

Unless my comprehension is just scrambled, I don't understand why the part I placed in 'bold' is in this law...unless, by intention or mistake, enhanced permit holders may now carry on school properties.  This certainly goes against current law.  Any opinions?

[DaveTN]

44 minutes ago, chances R said:

 enhanced permit holders may now carry on school properties.  This certainly goes against current law.  Any opinions?

Not without changing 39-17-1309

[chances R]

That's why I mentioned both in the post.  Why ( well that's a never ending question with our legislature) would they even refer to school property at all in this errant piece of legislation?

Furthermore, someone is suppose to look over legislation to insure there are no such conflicts.  It was ignored in both chambers.

Edited July 7, 2019 by chances R

[Chucktshoes]

It seems like a hamfisted way of referring to public parks or other places where a school is in attendance for a function. 

[Pops T]

I'm behind in this, need an assist.

Moved here in Sept2018 from FL. Have a FL CCP, which TN doesn't recognize as I've been here more than 6 months.

What are my option with the new law.

Thanks 

[chances R]

sign up for the 8 hr. HCP class.

[dawgdoc]

I agree that as written above, it looks like the law gives an exemption to enhanced permit holders about school property.  If it doesn't, then it is going to confuse a lot of people.

Right now, the only major differences between the benefits of the two permits looks like the ability to carry openly and how long they are valid.  An average person, reading the above law, could reasonably think that one of the "enhancements" is getting to carry more places.  

I'm going by a plain English reading of the law.  If it is a mistake, then they need to clarify before someone carries on some college greenway and think they are OK.

Edited July 7, 2019 by dawgdoc

[DaveTN]

5 hours ago, Pops T said:

I'm behind in this, need an assist.

Moved here in Sept2018 from FL. Have a FL CCP, which TN doesn't recognize as I've been here more than 6 months.

What are my option with the new law.

Thanks 

Unless you want to go without a permit until the first of next year; you need to start from scratch on a HCP. You can wait until the first of the year if all you want is a CCP, and don't care about possible issues with reciprocity with other states. Then you just do the online BS and send money. 

 

[DaveTN]

4 hours ago, dawgdoc said:

Right now, the only major differences between the benefits of the two permits looks like the ability to carry openly and how long they are valid. 

And possibly, presumably, arguably, whether or not your permit is recognized in other states.

[owejia]

Typical Tenn  law. Have to make it so confusing and unable to understand. How easy would Constitutional carry be to understand? Have to keep the peons dazed and confused. Money for the lawyers would dry up if all laws were easy to understand, hence the reason they are written to confuse , even lawyers cannot agree on what they mean.

[DaveTN]

17 minutes ago, owejia said:

Typical Tenn  law. Have to make it so confusing and unable to understand. How easy would Constitutional carry be to understand? Have to keep the peons dazed and confused. Money for the lawyers would dry up if all laws were easy to understand, hence the reason they are written to confuse , even lawyers cannot agree on what they mean.

Tennessee isn’t Constitutional carry nor do they recognize the 2nd amendment as an individual right. And they probably never will.

My own belief on what is impacting this is Tennessee’s dependency on the tourist trade. Memphis, Nashville, Smokey Mountains area, and Chattanooga; all depend on that money. Constitutional carry, or not allowing businesses to post their own property with the weight of law would impact the tourist trade.

[chances R]

DaveTN….hadn't thought about that perspective.  Makes sense, but still hate the sign law.  My push would be ECP = local LEO carry FWIW.

[jhc77]

Mine expires 2022. Do current HCP holders need to pick one for 1/1/2020 or will it become one or the other until they expire?

[peejman]

59 minutes ago, jhc77 said:

Mine expires 2022. Do current HCP holders need to pick one for 1/1/2020 or will it become one or the other until they expire?

Existing permits will become the enhanced permit. 

[Pops T]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 8:21 PM, DaveTN said:

Unless you want to go without a permit until the first of next year; you need to start from scratch on a HCP. You can wait until the first of the year if all you want is a CCP, and don't care about possible issues with reciprocity with other states. Then you just do the online BS and send money. 

 

The only other state for me is IL and they don't reciprocity FL or TN. I can wait till 2020

[DaveTN]

8 hours ago, Pops T said:

The only other state for me is IL and they don't reciprocity FL or TN. I can wait till 2020

You can have a gun in your car in Illinois with a Tennessee HCP; you can’t without it. My WAG is that Illinois will not recognize the new permit even for that; but we have no way of knowing that yet.

[Pops T]

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 5:48 AM, DaveTN said:

You can have a gun in your car in Illinois with a Tennessee HCP; you can’t without it. My WAG is that Illinois will not recognize the new permit even for that; but we have no way of knowing that yet.

With my FL CCP in IL, I can carry my gun from the glove box to the trunk and from the trunk to the glove box. I don't bother anymore when going to see my folks.

[DaveTN]

27 minutes ago, Pops T said:

With my FL CCP in IL, I can carry my gun from the glove box to the trunk and from the trunk to the glove box. I don't bother anymore when going to see my folks.

I can have a gun in my car on My Tennessee HCP. I don’t know why a Florida permit would be any different, but it may be.

Here is what the Illinois law has to say about it:

(430 ILCS 66/40)
 
(e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:

(1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law;

(2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence, as evidenced by the possession of a concealed carry license or permit issued by his or her state of residence, if applicable; and

(3) is not in possession of a license under this Act. If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended, he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in accordance with subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by DaveTN

[Erik88]

On 7/10/2019 at 5:48 AM, DaveTN said:

You can have a gun in your car in Illinois with a Tennessee HCP; you can’t without it. My WAG is that Illinois will not recognize the new permit even for that; but we have no way of knowing that yet.

Dave, I have to travel to Chicago soon. Do you just put your weapon in the glove box or console while traveling through IL? Are there magazine restrictions for Chicago specifically? Just wondering what I need to know before this trip. It looks like we will be in Indiana up until the last bit of the trip when we cross into IL.

 

thanks, 

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Dave, I have to travel to Chicago soon. Do you just put your weapon in the glove box or console while traveling through IL? Are there magazine restrictions for Chicago specifically? Just wondering what I need to know before this trip. It looks like we will be in Indiana up until the last bit of the trip when we cross into IL.

thanks, 

I feel comfortable discussing Illinois gun laws because I know them. That does not include Chicago or Cook County. I’ll give you my opinion, but you need to do the research if you are entering Cook County.

Chicago and Cook County has routinely thumbed their nose at not only the Attorney General of the State of Illinois, but the SCOTUS.

Chicago finally conceded that state laws trumps their law and there are no magazine limitations.

Illinois allows cities and counties to pass their own gun laws. But they require them to notify the state and have them posted in a public area. This link is that area for information on any city or county you may be going into.

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/MunicipalOrdinances.aspx

Illinois law does not require you to notify an Officer you are carrying if you are stopped. It does require you to answer truthfully if you are stopped and asked.

Your carry permit only covers you in your vehicle. If you exit that vehicle carrying a loaded gun; you are committing a crime.

You will find that most of the LEO's in Illinois are very professional and polite, that includes the Illinois State Police on the highways, who have an excellent reputation. That does not include the Chicago PD. If you get stopped by them don’t become stupid; most of the stories you have heard about them are probably true.

I hope this helps, have a nice trip.

EDIT: I should probably add that my comments above assume a Tennessee HCP. If you do not have an HCP or do not have it on your person to hand to the Officer; you can’t have a loaded gun in your vehicle in Illinois.

Edited July 15, 2019 by DaveTN

[Erik88]

5 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I feel comfortable discussing Illinois gun laws because I know them. That does not include Chicago or Cook County. I’ll give you my opinion, but you need to do the research if you are entering Cook County.

Chicago and Cook County has routinely thumbed their nose at not only the Attorney General of the State of Illinois, but the SCOTUS.

Chicago finally conceded that state laws trumps their law and there are no magazine limitations.

Illinois allows cities and counties to pass their own gun laws. But they require them to notify the state and have them posted in a public area. This link is that area for information on any city or county you may be going into.

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/MunicipalOrdinances.aspx

Illinois law does not require you to notify an Officer you are carrying if you are stopped. It does require you to answer truthfully if you are stopped and asked.

Your carry permit only covers you in your vehicle. If you exit that vehicle carrying a loaded gun; you are committing a crime.

You will find that most of the LEO's in Illinois are very professional and polite, that includes the Illinois State Police on the highways, who have an excellent reputation. That does not include the Chicago PD. If you get stopped by them don’t become stupid; most of the stories you have heard about them are probably true.

I hope this helps, have a nice trip.

Yes, thanks. I knew you were the resident expert on their laws. My plan is to bring my lock box and secure it to my seat bracket once we exit the vehicle.  Once we get there we likely won't use the vehicle much until we return. I'm hoping the area is low risk for vehicle break in. 

[300winmag]

You would be better off spending the slightly extra money and getting what right now is called the handgun carry permit and will be called next year the enhanced carry permit.  You may end up with better reciprocity in other states and also be legal to carry in a couple more places, such as public hunting land.  

[dawgdoc]

At the beginning of this thread, there was a bill summary posted which is pretty detailed, including the section about enhanced permit holders carrying on school property, and then there are the amendments to the bill.  The bill as passed that was linked here: https://handgun.safety.tn.gov/WebFiles/HESS/2019LegislativeSynopsis.pdf (which is found in this thread: https://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/111711-state-summary-of-new-gun-laws/).  The bill on the synopsis page has no language even similar to the section pertaining to school carry.  Was this language amended out in the Senate?  I'm trying to figure it out now by reviewing the other amendments.

 

Edit:  So from I understand from the amendment history, is that basically in both the House and Senate, they deleted everything after the enacting clause and adding the bulk of the text that is now the signed bill.  All I can find is the bill summary and the amendment history, but not the actual words of the originally introduced bill.  I am inferring that the summary is the layman's language explaining what was in the original bill.  I would like to see what the original bill said before it was amended.

I know it is common to amend bills and sometimes completely change them, but on this page,(http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1264), if you just read the summary, you get a far different impression of what changed in the law.  I'm not used to Tennessee's legislative webpage, so maybe I am wrong.

Edited July 20, 2019 by dawgdoc