My 5D Tactical Multiplatform Router Jig Pro video

[I40Bandit]

Thought I would put up a link to my TubeofYou video regarding the 5D Tactical Router Jig Multiplatform for finishing 80% AR lowers. Hope you enjoy. It took me far more time and effort to produce the video than finish all the lowers, lol. It did net me a custom 50% off code for their store (Up to $125 value) which I used for a couple more ReadyMills and some more lowers

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by I40Bandit
spelling correction

[DaveTN]

I didn’t see this thread when I posted in your other one, so I'll just add this here.

Not only a good review on the kit, but a very good quality video.

[RED333]

Nice, a bit pricey, but you do get good guilty stuff. I know that doing this to make money just might get you a visit from the 3 letter guys. Wonder if you were to rent the jig out would that get you a visit?

[I40Bandit]

@RED333 To my understanding, no it would not. I do know there are 'finishing parties' where a group will get together at someones house and BBQ, shoot and what not while everyone gets a turn finishing theirs. I have never heard of that being an issue since each person finishes their own. No requirement in the law that states you must also own the tooling/equipment. 5-6 yrs ago when I lived in So Cal there where shops that rented out tools/space and guidance....no idea if that ever netted them a visit.

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, RED333 said:

Nice, a bit pricey, but you do get good guilty stuff. I know that doing this to make money just might get you a visit from the 3 letter guys. Wonder if you were to rent the jig out would that get you a visit?

I wondered the same thing. $500 (if you already have a router) Isn’t something I’d be interested in doing, but if you want to be able to say you did it yourself it might be worth it. I also get tired of guns and have to keep the inventory moving; can’t do that with those firearms you make.

But hey, we have all done stuff that didn’t make good financial sense, or just good sense in general. At least I know I have. I’ve thought about buying a used Bridgeport to be able to do that stuff from scratch.

I thought that if you had an area set-up with all the tools, so all someone had to do was bring their own lower; you might be able to get your money back. I don’t think that would be illegal; but you never know.

[I40Bandit]

23 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I wondered the same thing. $500 (if you already have a router) Isn’t something I’d be interested in doing, but if you want to be able to say you did it yourself it might be worth it. I also get tired of guns and have to keep the inventory moving; can’t do that with those firearms you make.

But hey, we have all done stuff that didn’t make good financial sense, or just good sense in general. At least I know I have. I’ve thought about buying a used Bridgeport to be able to do that stuff from scratch.

I thought that if you had an area set-up with all the tools, so all someone had to do was bring their own lower; you might be able to get your money back. I don’t think that would be illegal; but you never know.

Slap a different (commercial) lower on the build and you can sell it. If you are willing you could work with a buyer to put whatever lower they want on it. Keep your self-finished lower to build another. I too get bored and cycle through them.

I've never done it, but I think you can serialize a lower and sell it (individually or as a full firearm), as long as you did not manufacture it for sale. No idea how they come to that determination. Maybe if you sell more than 1 in a certain period of time.....no idea.

I have recouped my investment from friends and family sufficiently. I don't regret the purchase at all and keep ....uuuhhh....some lowers on hand (and accoutrement) in case the wind gets really bad in the future and I need extra paper weights. True, I had a twist in the guts when I hit 'place order'. It went away shortly after receiving the kit.

Oh how I want a proper mill and lathe.

Edited July 6, 2019 by I40Bandit

[DaveTN]

9 minutes ago, I40Bandit said:

Slap a different (commercial) lower on the build and you can sell it. If you are willing you could work with a buyer to put whatever lower they want on it. Keep your self-finished lower to build another. I too get bored and cycle through them.

I've never done it, but I think you can serialize a lower and sell it (individually or as a full firearm), as long as you did not manufacture it for sale. No idea how they come to that determination. Maybe if you sell more than 1 in a certain period of time.....no idea.

I have recouped my investment from friends and family sufficiently. I don't regret the purchase at all and keep ....uuuhhh....some lowers on hand (and accoutrement) in case the wind gets really bad in the future and I need extra paper weights. True, I had a twist in the guts when I hit 'place order'. It went away shortly after receiving the kit.

Oh how I want a proper mill and lathe.

OK.

But if I bought one of those they would outlaw 80% lowers tomorrow. 

I’m a Toolmaker by trade (Retired). I always said if I could retire and sit around in my underwear drinking coffee and making stuff; that would be great. Not quite there; I now sit around in my underwear drinking coffee and programming parts for other people (part time).

[I40Bandit]

24 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

OK.

But if I bought one of those they would outlaw 80% lowers tomorrow. 

I’m a Toolmaker by trade (Retired). I always said if I could retire and sit around in my underwear drinking coffee and making stuff; that would be great. Not quite there; I now sit around in my underwear drinking coffee and programming parts for other people (part time).

Well, hell......make your own fixtures then!

I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything, just sharing my experience. I've been messing with them for several years.

Per BATFE:

Held, any person (including any corporation or other legal entity) engaged in the business of performing machining, molding, casting, forging, printing (additive manufacturing) or other manufacturing process to create a firearm frame or receiver, or to make a frame or receiver suitable for use as part of a “weapon … which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” i.e., a “firearm,” must be licensed as a manufacturer under the GCA; identify (mark) any such firearm; and maintain required manufacturer’s records.

Held further, a business (including an association or society) may not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and record keeping requirements of the GCA by allowing persons to perform manufacturing processes on blanks or incomplete firearms (including frames or receivers) using machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion and control where that business controls access to, and use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment.”

So, by my understanding if I provided to you the tools for free, and you were nice enough to realize that the router uses brushes, and the cutting mill wears etc. etc and decided to tip or donate towards maint....then that's legal. I'm not in business, nor am I under control of the domain in which they will be used.

Laws of course can be changed when 'necessary', and Dems (well, all politicians, really) will always find it necessary to infringe on our liberties.

 

And so I place my bet and roll the bones.

Edited July 6, 2019 by I40Bandit

[I40Bandit]

Oh good Lord, steady my itchy finger. $295 for a complete AR pistol chambered in 5.56. Some milling and assembly required. You can have them assemble the upper. I do my own.

https://www.deltateamtactical.com/Davidson-Defense-“Shamrock”-AR-15-Pistol-Upper-Receiver-75”-556-NATO-4150-CMV-1-7T-Barrel-7”-M-Lok-Handguard-Assembled-or-Unassembled_p_9899.html?goal=0_1daae510d2-9df4c0cee6-306479797&utm_campaign=9df4c0cee6-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_07_05_02_47&mc_cid=9df4c0cee6&utm_term=0_1daae510d2-9df4c0cee6-306479797&mc_eid=09d1a83ad0&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Customers

[Chucktshoes]

I’d be very careful about attempting to monetize letting others use use one’s equipment to finish out their 80% receivers. That very behavior was part of the problems Ares Armor had with the ATF a few years back. IIRC the way it ended up shaking out is that the ATF considered that being in the business of manufacturing. As far as they were concerned, it didn’t matter if you didn’t operate the equipment, if you owned it, you manufactured it. 

[DaveTN]

 

2 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

IIRC the way it ended up shaking out is that the ATF considered that being in the business of manufacturing. As far as they were concerned, it didn’t matter if you didn’t operate the equipment, if you owned it, you manufactured it. 

Hence my comment "I don’t think that would be illegal; but you never know." They do whatever they want.

 

[I40Bandit]

I'm certainly not trying to monetize it, and would not recommend anyone try to. No way. I won't provide an unfinished lower, I don't do any of the machining for anyone, and I don't charge. That's a business. Ares in National City is where I physically waked in and purchased my first 80% lowers.

[DaveTN]

10 minutes ago, I40Bandit said:

I'm certainly not trying to monetize it, and would not recommend anyone try to. No way. I won't provide an unfinished lower, I don't do any of the machining for anyone, and I don't charge. 

I wasn’t trying to imply you were. I see it like reloading; some people just want to do it regardless of the cost. Nothing wrong with that. I’m pretty sure that anyone that does their research and buys one of those knows they will probably end up in the Federal Home For Wayward Souls if they start selling them.

However, AR’s are dirt cheap from the big boys right now, and there are a million garage builds available from Bubba for those that don’t like paperwork. Not really an attractive business right now. 

[Chucktshoes]

16 minutes ago, I40Bandit said:

I'm certainly not trying to monetize it, and would not recommend anyone try to. No way. I won't provide an unfinished lower, I don't do any of the machining for anyone, and I don't charge. That's a business. Ares in National City is where I physically waked in and purchased my first 80% lowers.

We all make our own choices, but it’s more than sketchy enough to me all around that I’ll abstain from being involved in any way in borrowing or lending of equipment for the purposes of making a firearm. 

I’m not implying that you are intending or attempting to skirt the laws, just that I don’t trust the folks over at Burn All Toddlers First not to get the hankering to come a knocking after some posts on the interwebs. Like @DaveTN said, they do what they want and I like my dog and kids alive. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Chucktshoes

[I40Bandit]

Thunderstorm rolling thru screwing up my posting, lol. Maybe I get this one through.

 

The important part (IMHO) on the Ares ruling was the fact that they controlled the premise where that manufacturing was occurring. No where in any law, ruling or clarification paper from ATF has it said you must also own the tools.

 

And truly, AR's are not the business to be in right now if you want to flip, unless you buy low, sit until a Dem is in the White House then sell high.

[I40Bandit]

And to be very clear, I'm not offering any of my tools, fixtures or receiver(s) (finished or not) for use, rent or sale. Above convo with DaveTN was merely hypothetical. Advice on getting a smooth FCG pocket finish is free.