SRO Law

[pop pop]

I hope I understood this correctly. Tennessee has passed a bill, and funded it also, which will put an armed SRO officer in every School in TN. It takes effect on the first of July this year. I like this and think it to be a good thing. This should make school shootings harder to do in this state, I hope.

[E4 No More]

47 minutes ago, pop pop said:

I hope I understood this correctly. Tennessee has passed a bill, and funded it also, which will put an armed SRO officer in every School in TN. It takes effect on the first of July this year. I like this and think it to be a good thing. This should make school shootings harder to do in this state, I hope.

Not really. An attacker knows who to shoot first.

[gregintenn]

1 minute ago, E4 No More said:

Not really. An attacker knows who to shoot first.

The old guy asleep in the chair with a free loaded gun on his belt.

[DaveTN]

It’s a great idea. I didn’t know there were schools that don’t have SRO’s.

Hopefully it won’t be seen as a pre-retirement position. Good SRO’s can do a lot of good Police work and clear a lot of crime, if they are interested in the job.

I’m 65 years old and my city had SRO’s when I was in high school.

[peejman]

11 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

The old guy asleep in the chair with a free loaded gun on his belt.

None of the SRO's I've seen here are old. I don't know that I've seen one over 50. All of them have had a positive influence on the kids. 

[Ronald_55]

1 minute ago, gregintenn said:

The old guy asleep in the chair with a free loaded gun on his belt.

Yep, I see lots of "semi-retired" Leo's that end up being SRO. No offense meant to them, their experience can play a great role in kids lives, but some of them are in sunset mode. They no longer work the beat and these are easy positions to work in until they officially retire. My grandfather was a police officer for 30 years. I would not have blinked an eye at him being a SRO at 70, he was still in good shape. I have met 45 year old ones that can barely walk fast without passing out. Unfortunately, the latter make up 75% of the SROs I have seen. 

[E4 No More]

I don't have the tolerance for other people's kids to have become a SRO.  

[DaveTN]

7 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

I don't have the tolerance for other people's kids to have become a SRO.  

Ha, ha, ha. My daughter was a school teacher, got fed up with it an became a Probation Officer. She said she wanted to be a juvenile Officer; I said “No you don’t, you can’t help the kids when the parents are in the way.” She has worked adult Probation for about 20 years and is glad she doesn’t have to deal with the juveniles.

[btq96r]

The last SRO I remember from my school days was somewhere between convalescent leave and retirement.  Nice guy, would take his lunch in the cafeteria to sit and chat with students, positive influence as @Ronald_55 alluded to...but today I wouldn't look at him and think man of action.  Still, putting a good person willing to do what a situation calls for is a step in the right direction.  Hopefully we'll see folks of that ilk rather than ones clocking away to a pension will along the Parkland model. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by btq96r

[dralarms]

When my kids were in high school they had this young kid as sro, knew nothing and acted like he just wanted to be friends with the kids. Now the sucker grew up and is now our sheriff

[Capbyrd]

Because SRO's do anything?   Reference Scott Peterson.  

[E4 No More]

5 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

Because SRO's do anything?   Reference Scott Peterson.  

Really not cool to characterize all SROs as Scott Peterson.

[Chucktshoes]

Anyone who seeks out or accepts an SRO position needs to know and understand that it is the one job in LE that nobody cares whether or not you survive if the worst happens. The survivability of an SRO is literally at the bottom of the list of concerns in a school attack.

If the SRO dies, folks will mourn and laud their actions, but it will be considered an acceptable and worthy sacrifice. The primary job of the SRO in this day and age is to protect the kids by stopping an attacker. If the SRO has to die in furtherance of that end, so be it.

It’s not the semi-retirement gig for Officer Friendly anymore. I think that needs to be made explicitly clear to folks before they accept the assignment. 

While my words are blunt, and my critical views on policing are not a secret, I hope y’all see that my words are not born of malice towards LE, but of belief in what the primary mission of the SRO position has become. To harden a target, you need hard men. Anyone who chooses to fill that role with the understanding of what the job really and willingness to do it, has my utmost respect. 

[Capbyrd]

2 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Anyone who seeks out or accepts an SRO position needs to know and understand that it is the one job in LE that nobody cares whether or not you survive if the worst happens. The survivability of an SRO is literally at the bottom of the list of concerns in a school attack.

If the SRO dies, folks will mourn and laud their actions, but it will be considered an acceptable and worthy sacrifice. The primary job of the SRO in this day and age is to protect the kids by stopping an attacker. If the SRO has to die in furtherance of that end, so be it.

 

I'll go a step further and say that should apply to all of us as well.  At least in the presence of a bunch of kids.  

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

 

I'll go a step further and say that should apply to all of us as well.  At least in the presence of a bunch of kids.  

I absolutely agree. I also pray that I (or any of y’all) never have to find out if I (or y’all) have the mettle to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done. 

[Erik88]

55 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Really not cool to characterize all SROs as Scott Peterson.

There was also an SRO at a few of the other recent school shootings. It doesn't seem to be stopping them. 

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

Anyone who seeks out or accepts an SRO position needs to know and understand that it is the one job in LE that nobody cares whether or not you survive if the worst happens. The survivability of an SRO is literally at the bottom of the list of concerns in a school attack.

If the SRO dies, folks will mourn and laud their actions, but it will be considered an acceptable and worthy sacrifice. The primary job of the SRO in this day and age is to protect the kids by stopping an attacker. If the SRO has to die in furtherance of that end, so be it.

It’s not the semi-retirement gig for Officer Friendly anymore. I think that needs to be made explicitly clear to folks before they accept the assignment. 

While my words are blunt, and my critical views on policing are not a secret, I hope y’all see that my words are not born of malice towards LE, but of belief in what the primary mission of the SRO position has become. To harden a target, you need hard men. Anyone who chooses to fill that role with the understanding of what the job really and willingness to do it, has my utmost respect. 

I agree with you and think that applies to most active shooter situations anymore. The days of getting together and working as a unit are over; it’s engage quick and end the threat.

Now before you get excited because we agree on something, let me add something you probably won’t agree with.

Cops aren’t disposable and in endless supply and they won’t be asked to risk their life because some dirt bag doesn’t know how to act around cops when said dirt bag has his gun in his hand. Things have changed. If you put yourself in a situation where cops or citizens think you are going to become an active shooter; you are probably going to get killed.

I see very few instances where cops need more training and a lot where citizens with guns need training. (Sometimes it’s too late and they don’t need it anymore….for both)

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

There was also an SRO at a few of the other recent school shootings. It doesn't seem to be stopping them. 

It isn’t going to stop them.

They fear nothing and are prepared to die. All you can hope for is to be there when they cut loose and reduce the body count.

[peejman]

17 hours ago, Erik88 said:

There was also an SRO at a few of the other recent school shootings. It doesn't seem to be stopping them. 

Have a single officer on a 10 acre campus with functionally zero security otherwise isn't going to do much.  The SRO is a mall cop at that point.  

I was at a friend of my son's birthday party the other day. One of the mom's was commenting on a new school being built and how it had huge iron fencing and looked like a prison. She said she wouldn't want her kids to go to a school that looks like that. I smiled and thought, perhaps they (the school builders) are learning. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by peejman

[Capbyrd]

6 minutes ago, peejman said:

Have a single officer on a 10 acre campus with functionally zero security otherwise isn't going to do much.  The SRO is a mall cop at that point.

That's actually a better ratio than policing in general.  I don't know about other departments but the Memphis Police Department has a little over 2000 cops right now.   The city has an area of about 207,360 acres.  About 5700 acres of that are water so we can take those out if you want and get it closer to 2000 cops covering 200,000 acres (for the sake of simple math).    That's one cop for every 100 acres.   

I was able to find Nashville's numbers.   They have 1315 cops covering 336,000 acres.   That's one cop for every 255 acres.   A worse ratio that Memphis and way behind the SRO that you said.    

[TomInMN]

47 minutes ago, peejman said:

 

I was at a friend of my son's birthday party the other day. One of the mom's was commenting on a new school being built and how it had huge iron fencing and looked like a prison. She said she wouldn't want her kids to go to a school that looks like that. I smiled and thought, perhaps they (the school builders) are learning. 

Depending on how they control access, it may be no net gain in safety for people at the school.

And if a shooter (or shooters) do get inside, that fence might just become the worst thing the builders could have included.

[gregintenn]

I'd rather have teachers and janitors packing rather than one guy or gal who does absolutely nothing all day waiting on the .000000000000001% chance something bad might happen.

[peejman]

1 hour ago, Capbyrd said:

That's actually a better ratio than policing in general.  I don't know about other departments but the Memphis Police Department has a little over 2000 cops right now.   The city has an area of about 207,360 acres.  About 5700 acres of that are water so we can take those out if you want and get it closer to 2000 cops covering 200,000 acres (for the sake of simple math).    That's one cop for every 100 acres.   

I was able to find Nashville's numbers.   They have 1315 cops covering 336,000 acres.   That's one cop for every 255 acres.   A worse ratio that Memphis and way behind the SRO that you said.    

I understand your point, but...  

Memphis has roughly 670,000 people in those 200,000 acres... 3.4 people per acre or 340 people per cop. Nashville has 630,000 people in 336,000 acres, 1.9 people per acre, or 485 people per cop.

That 10 acre school has 1000 people, 100 people per acre.  They're nicely compartmentalized into little rooms in buildings spread out across the space, and known to be defenseless.  

Just like I did when I wanted to skip school in high school... just wait until the cop is at the other end of the school, then make a dash for the car and drive out. It was easy to not get caught. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by peejman

[peejman]

1 hour ago, TomInMN said:

Depending on how they control access, it may be no net gain in safety for people at the school.

And if a shooter (or shooters) do get inside, that fence might just become the worst thing the builders could have included.

I don't disagree, but you illustrate my point.  Controlling access is key. Work much harder on keeping them out.  There should be only one entry/exit to the property and it should be a considerable distance from the doors to any building. Prevention rather than detection.  

[Capbyrd]

Where did yall go to school that you had cops around?  I went to a Memphis City School and they didn't have a cop until after I graduated.