Slushee question for June-July: Velocity v. Weight

[molonlabetn]

...Pay to train, or train and get paid...

I suppose it's more appealing to collect badges of 'badassery' without the risk of being obligated to go into harm's way. Glory without sacrifice...

[TGO David]

I suppose it's more appealing to collect badges of 'badassery' without the risk of being obligated to go into harm's way. Glory without sacrifice (other than money... kinda like 'enhancement' surgery)...

Baddassery... YES! That comes stock with every box of .357SIG ammo that you buy doesn't it?

[molonlabetn]

Baddassery... YES! That comes stock with every box of .357SIG ammo that you buy doesn't it?

I'll do anything to compensate for my tactical un-worthiness...

[molonlabetn]

I suppose it's more appealing to collect badges of 'badassery' without the risk of being obligated to go into harm's way. Glory without sacrifice...

Not that there's anything wrong with proper training... As long as practical proficiency is the objective.

[Marswolf]

I'll do anything to compensate for my tactical un-worthiness...

I'm afraid I'm tactically uncool by some standards. My training is pretty much military and actual experience. Never got to pretend fight much.

[Urse]

Big and Slow, .45, AK. That said I carry a .38, 9mm or/and a 40s&w(trunk gun is a AK 7.62). In a perfect world I will have time to get a good sight picture center mass squeeze. In reality hit as hard as possible while moving off the X and shoot em to the ground.

[Guest Greentimber]

We know...

But at some point, terminal effectiveness does come into play. That is what we are discussing. To say it is 'meaningless' merely avoids the question.

That's my point. The question is meaningless, or at least very unimportant. Pick a service-caliber gun (.38-.45) that works 100% of the time and focus on getting good with it. We often put too much emphasis on equipment and not enough on more important things. We're all guilty of it to some degree at one time or another.

I don't use my combat experience as a crutch or as an excuse to stop learning and improving.

[DaveTN]

Good idea… the “Rolling Rock†thing.

Let me first say that I did not read all six pages of this thread, so someone may have already posted this.

I believe that everything in life is application driven. “The best†for anything will depend on your application and the desired result.

If we are discussing “the best†handgun round we would need to define what our desired results are.

Here are some possible desired results……

1. Make a hit render a bad guy unwilling or unable to fire his weapon at you.

2. Make large wound tracts, making sure he bleeds out.

3. Show good ballistic numbers when shooting through gelatin or wet phone books.

4. High velocity numbers on paper.

I was trained “Stop the threatâ€. Three words; everything else is secondary. His death, would tracts, velocity, bullet size, bullet energy, bullet placement, and collateral damage… bla ..bla...bla. Everything is secondary to making him unwilling or unable to fire his weapon.

For over 100 year’s one handgun round has been the undisputed king of this requirement. Other rounds may be used for other applications or desired results.

The fact that you can’t handle a .45, that it’s a hassle to conceal, that it is heavy, that it costs more to shoot than a 9mm or that it doesn’t hold as many rounds as a .40; are legitimate reasons for you to step down to the second best.

Shot placement…. For those guys it does not matter what caliber they use. If you can repeatedly, under pressure, with adrenaline flowing to the max make head shots; caliber is kinda moot. Having been there, done that and having the T-Shirt; I can’t do that.

[towerclimber37]

I'm afraid I'm tactically uncool by some standards. My training is pretty much military and actual experience. Never got to pretend fight much.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

What ever!

Uncool huh?

I know what you mean. I've seen guys dressed in loose fitting torn trousers with sandals shoot the crap out of the Ubertactical guys before. Simply because they meant to do it. they had the will and the experience and were John Wayne toliet paper when they were shooting.

In my opinion and experience, It comes down to a couple of things.

1. training

2. thinking on the move and maneuvering outside of the kill zone.

3 superior firepower and the ability to "outgun" or supress the ambush.

4. luck- Murphy is always around and he hates your guts...

At the end of the day, what matters is who is left wet on the inside and dry on the outside. If you have a weapons platform that you've trained with/used until its an extension of your will, then you will do well.

Urse sums it up very well with his post...speaking of which, Urse can I have permission to use that as a tag line?

its blunt, informative and perfect.

thats just my 2 cents.

[dcloudy777]

Okay, but awareness and mindset are practically impossible to discuss. How many posts does it take to say "Keep your head out of your ass!" and "If the fight comes to you, your best odds of survival lay in visiting the most intense violence on you attacker in the shortest time possible."?

DanO

... who may have just written his first two "Rules for Going Armed"...

[Marswolf]

Awareness is something you can learn to do. It takes practice. After a while it becomes the norm. A class can teach the basics, but you have to practice it on your own.

Mindset, I find, comes from analyzing your situation before you get into trouble so you know what you will do instantly if trouble happens. Sort of contingency planning. Visualization is also part of the mindset package so you will actually take an action if the time comes. Some people can plan and visualize all their life, but can't take the action when that time comes. They freeze or try to hide. If it's purely a self defense situation and you have no one else to protect, hiding may work. But you never leave others to fend for themselves, especially if they are wounded. That's just cowardice. If you survive by hiding and you leave your buddies to bleed to death, you're just scum who is using up good people's air.

Tower, as you say, getting out of the kill zone (with your buddies) is a highly desirable thing. For some reason we hear more from a lot of folks about shooting your attacker than we do about moving out of the line of fire while you attempt to shoot him. It should be a package and part of your planning. If someone is attacking you in the Wal-Mart parking lot, there is nothing wrong with using a car as a shield as you fire or threaten to fire.

I have a long list of military Murphy's laws. May have to start a topic. Tracers work both ways.

[The Rabbi]

And a very large number of people, including police officers and soldiers, cannot bring themselves to pull the trigger when the time comes.

Now I know everyone here just knows for a fact that they could do it if needed. But the truth is that no one knows until he's in that situation.