Land Lease Value?

[jfluckey]

I bought 150 acres in Fentress this year (January). The guy I bought it from leased it to a hunter for deer season and placed said hunter and buddies on the hog exemption. I renewed the exemption the day after our purchase and kept all 10 names already on it. 

So, come deer season, what is a reasonable price for the lease knowing they also hunt hog year round? 

Eventually, within a couple years, the land will be strictly private, but I don't want to kick this hunter out in the mean time. He even has a small shack on the property. He and his buddies are keeping unwanted visitors at bay and keeping trails knocked down. They keep the area clean and even pick up trash left by others. I will officially be moving there around August, so these services won't hold any value at that time. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by jfluckey
Grammar

[martin5]

Do these people know you are going to put them out in a couple of years?

[10-Ring]

If they are effectively keeping the riff raff run off I would keep them.  The riff raff in that area is very riffy, or maybe raffy?  Used to have a lease in that area, eventually left because of all of the undesirable people.  A lot of people in that area that could care less about property lines and personal property.  Think we were paying around $600/yr for 1500 acres up there.  

[jfluckey]

5 hours ago, martin5 said:

Do these people know you are going to put them out in a couple of years?

Martin, we've only talked a couple times and I made mention that I would continue the lease for now, but without outright saying it implied my intentions. I don't live there yet and I don't have a hard date of when I will stop leasing. I'm sure there will be a transition time if he's up to it, for him to let me hunt with him for a reduced lease since I have had no one to take me growing up. I did buy this property for privacy, but getting acclimated and settled to keep that much land private will take at least a couple years. 

[martin5]

I had a lease in Fentress once and we couldn’t keep people out.

[martin5]

I understand where you’re coming from. I’m sure it’s not going to be easy to keep private. Good luck with that. I’ve had too many leases in the past and could never keep people off.

[jfluckey]

3 hours ago, 10-Ring said:

If they are effectively keeping the riff raff run off I would keep them.  The riff raff in that area is very riffy, or maybe raffy?  Used to have a lease in that area, eventually left because of all of the undesirable people.  A lot of people in that area that could care less about property lines and personal property.  Think we were paying around $600/yr for 1500 acres up there.  

I was hovering around $600. Is that reasonable for deer and year round hog? I still want access to the land, so I will see how our schedules jive this year to see how we proceed in the future. 

I work from home and my property is along a 3/4 mile long dead end road that my property extends both sides at the dead end. There are 2 neighbors. I will see any time a car drives by that shouldn't be. So, I will be a presence that will deter any riff or raff. While I have yet to go hunting, I do enjoy shooting. Guns and signs should be enough to keep the unwanted away. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by jfluckey

[jfluckey]

Also, property lines shouldn't be a problem. My property is bordered by 800 acres and that is bordered by the East Fork Obey River. People would have to put a lot of effort to gain access to the property outside of the road that my office will be pointing at. 

[jfluckey]

11 minutes ago, martin5 said:

I understand where you’re coming from. I’m sure it’s not going to be easy to keep private. Good luck with that. I’ve had too many leases in the past and could never keep people off.

Martin, 

This hunter seems to be a good guy and keeps me up to date. He installed a steel cable across a path to keep anyone from driving down it and called to make sure I was OK with it and knew where the key was. Again, access to the property is essential limited to the road that I will eventually have an eye on for more than half of my waking hours. He has leased the property for I don't know how many years before I bought it, so he must not have a huge problem with other people coming in, or he wouldn't keep coming back. I think he lives at least an hour away from my land because I haven't been able to meet up with him yet on the several trips down there. 

What do you think about the lease price? I don't know if the hog hunting should affect the price. I was thinking $600 for deer season, but I have been letting him hunt hogs for free because of his services of my previous post. But, like I said, those services will no longer have value once I'm there. Eventually I'm gonna be shooting that free pork! 

[martin5]

I think that the leases I’ve had in the past we’re based on the property taxes but I’m not 100% on that. It will also depend on how many people hunt with him. $600 out of one mans pocket is a pretty big chunk for some. If he’s keeping the hogs down that’s a bonus as they will tear your place a part. I didn’t mean to sound bitter about putting him out but I have leased propert and it get sold and I was put out in the middle of turkey season. I also used to have land to hunt all over east Tn but as people mostly from up north move down here and buy it up . I no longer have it.

[jfluckey]

4 minutes ago, martin5 said:

I think that the leases I’ve had in the past we’re based on the property taxes but I’m not 100% on that. It will also depend on how many people hunt with him. $600 out of one mans pocket is a pretty big chunk for some. If he’s keeping the hogs down that’s a bonus as they will tear your place a part. I didn’t mean to sound bitter about putting him out but I have leased propert and it get sold and I was put out in the middle of turkey season. I also used to have land to hunt all over east Tn but as people mostly from up north move down here and buy it up . I no longer have it.

Martin, 

Sorry for your bad experience. I'm one of those "up north" people, but I'm as conservative as they come. Think of me as someone offsetting the influx of blue-state people into Nashville. I am not leasing as a source of revenue, but just because I don't want to uproot this hunter (like happened to you). I don't mind IN (we have pretty good gun laws and maybe even constitutional carry soon), but I needed more land to shoot on. $8k an acre in IN or $1k in TN. The beauty of KY/TN with cheaper land drove us south, but no state income tax in TN sealed the deal. Most of my money doesn't get spent on goods (rather tithe, mortgage, retirement savings, etc) so paying 2% (sales tax 7% vs 9%) more on goods, but saving 5% on total income (Indiana state + County) is a no-brainer. 

[martin5]

That’s fine you are doing what’s best for you. If you think about it that’s what’s going to happen to this guy. I don’t think his taking a deer or hog every season will starve you out.

[martin5]

I also have family in IN.

[jfluckey]

Just now, martin5 said:

I also have family in IN.

Great! Just remember you can ignore "no gun" signs on private property in IN when you visit them. Signs are not protected by law. If the owner sees you carrying, you have to leave if told, otherwise it becomes trespassing.

However, if you are trying to instill proper submission to your 5-year old, you have to leave your gun in the car when said 5-year old points out that sign. 

[martin5]

I won’t be going up there. I have never been there.

[Danger Rane]

Did the previous owner give you any indication of what he was charging the hunter to lease? I would start there and figure out if there's any reason to change it. Right now it sounds like the guy is providing you a pretty good service. I personally think $600 for 150 acres seems pretty high unless you have some trophy buck hunting. If he's just getting a few deer per year and the occasional hog then $600 is pretty steep. Oh and welcome to the group, glad to have you here. 

[Omega]

Hmmm, $600 seems ok to me, though I would not pay it, considering what I've seen/heard others paying.  What is the average price, say per acre to lease land here in TN? 

I think the previous owner should have made arrangements, or at least introductions to the hunter so you guys could work something out.  IMO, if he is being a good steward of the property, I would continue leasing, and possibly making him a hunting partner.  150 acres can hold multiple hunters, and as long as they are all respectful and possibly helpful to one another it should make hunting very successful.

[martin5]

Agreed.

[jfluckey]

Thanks guys. I added 8 people that he knows to the hog exemption, so I am assuming he's got at least a few of them splitting the cost. Again, I'm not doing this for revenue, but this does have value. Maybe the easiest way to go about it is to tell him to pay me whatever he was paying the previous owner. If he short changes me, he can worry about if his conscience gives him peace. I won't loose any sleep over it. 

[jfluckey]

Oh, and by the way, he had 4 hogs within the first two weeks of the year. Not sure what his current count is. 

[martin5]

4 is just the tip of the iceberg. They reproduce fast.

[Jeb48]

I don't have the acreage you have but a neighbor asked if he could put a tree stand on my property and I said no problem just remember where the house is and I get a steak if you get a deer. Had the same arrangement with some hunters at our old place. They appreciated the free place to hunt enough they brought me a steak the first year even though they didn't take the deer on my property.

Since you say you're not doing it for the revenue maybe you should just ask for a list of who is hunting and ask for some of the meat for the use of the land. They may keep you in free meat and they may continue to help you with your property.

[10-Ring]

On 6/9/2019 at 3:28 PM, jfluckey said:

I was hovering around $600. Is that reasonable for deer and year round hog? I still want access to the land, so I will see how our schedules jive this year to see how we proceed in the future. 

I work from home and my property is along a 3/4 mile long dead end road that my property extends both sides at the dead end. There are 2 neighbors. I will see any time a car drives by that shouldn't be. So, I will be a presence that will deter any riff or raff. While I have yet to go hunting, I do enjoy shooting. Guns and signs should be enough to keep the unwanted away. 

$600 is high IMO.  I'm paying less than that now to lease several thousands of acres.  I could be wrong, but if be surprised if anyone is really interested in the deer.  Fentress County holds deer in pockets, but the limits are so low in Fentress County that I wouldn't drive up there to hunt them for free. Pigs are going to be what people hunting that area are after.  Please be judicious and careful when confronting trespassers, they tend to occasionally travel in large groups and will make your life miserable if they don't kill you.  I would tell you to get to know others who live in the area, but that can go either way as well, there are a lot of people in that area who don't want anyone there who wasn't born there.  Some of them don't have a lot of sense and don't have anything to lose. 

[jfluckey]

Thanks for all comments. I wound up at $400 by telling him that I would continue with the price he has been paying. I also told him he can be there until at least the end of 2021. If I want to stop leasing I will give him at least a year's notice.