Home invasion, Knoxville

[A.J. Holst]

Missed this as we don't follow much local news.

"Suspect fled when confronted"

Everybody got lucky.

From the video, BG was ready to use the crowbar as he came around the corner and headed down the hall.

Appears enough ambient light, the homeowner should be able to identify he didn't have a Bible in his hands.

Homeowner didn't get brained, BG didn't get shot.

Starts an interesting rhetorical questions for the gun owner, attributed to Lee Weems

Can I shoot? A question of ability.

Should I shoot? A question of morality.

May I shoot? A question of (legal) permission. 

In this case, assuming you cause no damage or injury to your neighbors, you should be legally protected.

Despite the media re-labeling home invaders as "unwanted visitors"

The final imperative is, must I shoot?

A dude kicks in my door, knowing I'm home and has a weapon in his hands, it will probably be easy for law enforcement to locate him.

We use this best practice: lock bedroom door, have cell handy, and be ready. I've got insurance and stuff is replaceable.

 If you've got kids and need to gain a better defensive position, keep you plan simple and maintain perfect muzzle and trigger discipline.

Edited June 8, 2019 by A.J. Holst

[DaveTN]

36 minutes ago, A.J. Holst said:

May I shoot? A question of (legal) permission. 

It’s a shame people feel they keep having to question the legality of killing someone that is committing a criminal act putting them in danger. Hopefully some day that will change.

[AuEagle]

Can, should, may, must???

By the time those questions are answered you or your loved ones may be dead or injured.

One needs to stop the threat ASAP.

JMHO

[Erich]

Be prepared, but hope you never have to answer those questions.

On another note, was the backdoor unlocked? I didnt see door damage or wood flying out from a doorframe if kicked in.

I find myself a bit prone to making (biased) value judgements about the neighborhood and typical recreational habits based on stacked dishes and garbage all over. And folks locking doors at least to keep the police from strolling in.

[A.J. Holst]

32 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

Can, should, may, must???

By the time those questions are answered you or your loved ones may be dead or injured.

One needs to stop the threat ASAP.

JMHO

Which is why "must" is the only question that you need to answer.

I will return home each day under my own power and my loved ones will be protected from violence while I am present.

That's when must enters the equation, because carrying a firearm is a lesson in humility when those factors do not apply.

I know I can and if it's my circus and my monkeys (Randy Harris) should is pretty obvious.

Edited June 8, 2019 by A.J. Holst

[A.J. Holst]

5 minutes ago, Erich said:

On another note, was the backdoor unlocked? I didnt see door damage or wood flying out from a doorframe if kicked in

Noticed that as well. Used the handy crowbar key conveniently left on the porch to pry the flimsy frame.

I guess a ladder was left pretty accessible for second story work if ground floor was more secure.

Alarm dog as well.

As to your bias, because I am no longer single nor party like a rockstar in my bachelor pad, I too, felt disdain for the apparent lack of basic housekeeping.

Lots of what ifs...and I've done worse.

To your point, there are some less than desireable neighborhoods off Clinton Highway 

[dralarms]

If he’s in my house uninvited then there is no question about his intentions. They’d have carried him out in a body bag if it was my house. 

[Erich]

21 minutes ago, A.J. Holst said:

Noticed that as well. Used the handy crowbar key conveniently left on the porch to pry the flimsy frame.

Doh, guess I would fail if I ever took up B&E and a hobby.

I have one of those harbor freight $5 pry bars like he had, guess I know another thing they are good for!

[bersaguy]

I double check all of my doors before going to bed to make sure they are locked and dead bolted. Windows have never been unlocked since I have lived here almost 20 years. I did add wooden doll rods to each window track so it won't slide upward. If anyone gets in my house they will have to break something to get in period. One simple kick on my doors won't get it done I have the security dead bolts that go through the door frame and into the wood the door frame is mounted to. If they do get inside they will still be inside when the police arrive. Most likely bleeding and maybe not breathing but that will be entirely their drcision. Will just depend on how stupid they really are!!!

[maroonandwhite]

I guess it shouldn’t amaze me how “brave” these guys are now but it still does.  My home is off the beaten path so I believe my chances of this happening are slim but still lingers in my mind for that same reason.

[E4 No More]

All I can say is that if someone that I don't know comes into my house uninvited they will develop an acute case of lead poisoning unless they've identified themselves as police. I don't care if/what they have in their hands.

[krunchnik]

Castle doctrine-he is in my home uninvited with a object in his hand that can kill you as dead as a pistol or rifle-he is going to the floor with some help.

[felinesNfreedom]

On 6/8/2019 at 11:28 AM, dralarms said:

If he’s in my house uninvited then there is no question about his intentions. They’d have carried him out in a body bag if it was my house. 

Yep, With a bunch of 5.56 holes to help him come to room temperature. I hear people all the time talk about just trying to scare someone out of their house..... Man, if they are in my house uninvited that's more than enough reason for me to protect my family. God only knows what that person is capable of. 

[Cruel Hand Luke]

On 6/8/2019 at 11:39 AM, AuEagle said:

Can, should, may, must???

By the time those questions are answered you or your loved ones may be dead or injured.

One needs to stop the threat ASAP.

JMHO

What AJ is getting at is that people are often asking the WRONG questions.

 

"CAN I shoot him?" is a question of ability and to some degree availability of a gun with which to shoot him. 

"Should I shoot him?" is a question of ethics or morals. 

"May I shoot him?" is a question of permission or legality.

"Must I shoot him?" is the only question we need to have a clear answer for (and that answer is usually crystal clear if you know what to look for) 

So people should be asking themselves if they MUST shoot not if they can, or should or may.

Your answers will probably be different in your home vs in public. Questions of Ability, Opportunity and Jeopardy seem to be easier to answer when they are being asked about someone in your own home instead of in a parking lot. 

[bersaguy]

There would be zero doubt about what I am going to do if someone is in my house uninvited that should not be there. He will get shot until he is no longer a threat and anyone with him will also be shot until they are no longer a threat unless they are heading for an exit. I won't back shoot any one leaving because they have made the decision to end the threat on their own and the police will already be in route so they will probably catch the other guy fairly fast. That is not to say they may be bleeding cause I will shoot them all as long as they are facing me and a threat. I do have extended magazines with lots of rounds. 

[bersaguy]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:30 AM, maroonandwhite said:

I guess it shouldn’t amaze me how “brave” these guys are now but it still does.  My home is off the beaten path so I believe my chances of this happening are slim but still lingers in my mind for that same reason.

You mentioned you live quite far off the beaten path. My Daughter and SIL's house has been burgularized twice and they also live on a country road off the beaten path. They finally had a security system put in and so far so good but I don't plan on putting one in when I move out there in the back house and my parking area is behind the house so good luck is all I can say...............

[Sunfish]

Everybody needs a Rin Tin Tin to welcome uninvited guests. I can only assume that someone busting in knowing the home is occupied is looking for trouble and feel like the talking is over. 

[dralarms]

Lets just to the May,can, should crowd.  If someone is breaking into my home I must do what I have to to protect my family. 

[martin5]

I had a similar thing happen a few years ago. He popped my window off track and when he did the dog barked. My camera showed him walk off with my screen in hand. He never knew that I was on the other side with my .45 pointed at him. He broke into 13 houses In my subdivision which he also lives in. 2 months later he stole the wheels off my sons truck. He got them back luckily.

[chances R]

TN law via the Castle Doctrine states that if someone forcefully and unlawfully enters a home there is an assumption that there is a threat of serious bodily injury or death.  Therefore, one is allowed to use force, including deadly force, to protect ones self.  Each person would need to evaluate the circumstances and threat and act reasonably and with a decision one would hopefully not regret.

Edited June 13, 2019 by chances R

[bersaguy]

A friend of mine lived in a subdivision that was having a rash of home breakins and they thought it was kids doing it until one day a young lady was home sick from work and her car was in the garage when they kicked in the back door while she was laying down in a bedroom in the back of the house. She heard them talking and call 911 as she quietly got her Glock 9 mm out of the night stand. She didn't say anything to the 911 operator but theoperator heard all the shots and told the police that shots had been fired. She said later that she was in fear for her life till she got the Glock and then she was in fear of their lives. Her worst fears came true when two big men came running into the bedroom. She never hesitated. she began popping caps and both men went down and a third broke and ran and a neighbor saw them break in and had already called the police and they caught the third guy while he was running for the getaway vehicle. Neither one in the bedroom needed emergency assistance. They needed the coroner wagon and body bags. These were all men in mid to upper 20's. That ended all the home breakins in that subdivision. All it takes is one wrong house and that day they picked the wrong house.

[martin5]

That’s for sure! The guy that tried to break in my house only got probation for 2 years. He got real lucky.

[bersaguy]

4 hours ago, martin5 said:

That’s for sure! The guy that tried to break in my house only got probation for 2 years. He got real lucky.

Yes he did get lucky. Probabtion does not teach them anything. All it might do is stop them from doing what they were doing till it's over and many times you hear on the news that the perp violated their probation and was arrested again. The only real way to stop a burglar and home invaders is like the young lady in my previous post. A 9mm or larger, does not have to be a Glock, just any large caliber will work if used properly!!

[Radtekk]

On 6/11/2019 at 10:39 AM, E4 No More said:

All I can say is that if someone that I don't know comes into my house uninvited they will develop an acute case of lead poisoning unless they've identified themselves as police. I don't care if/what they have in their hands.

Well, I'm not a felon nor have I ever committed an act that would cause the police to have reason to enter my home. Therefore, should someone invade my home claiming to be LE it would NOT be a good life choice. 

[E4 No More]

11 hours ago, Radtekk said:

Well, I'm not a felon nor have I ever committed an act that would cause the police to have reason to enter my home. Therefore, should someone invade my home claiming to be LE it would NOT be a good life choice. 

I agree; it wouldn't be a good life choice for you.

EDIT for clarity: Police don't always get the right house. As long as they identify themselves as police you are criminally liable for shooting at them. That is if you survive the confrontation.

Edited June 17, 2019 by E4 No More
Clarity