New TN CC requirements pass house and senate

[300winmag]

It is important to note that the slight improvement to the 'no gun sign' law did not even make it through the Senate again to be signed by the governor.  So basically we got absolutely no reduction in carry restrictions this year.  The NRA it seems like could not even get behind a simple modification to slightly making our carry laws better and seeing that bill passed through the legislature to the governor's office.

Instead it looks like the NRA lobbyist pushed for a 2nd carry permit that saves people 35 bucks and could cause those of us with current handgun carry permits/now 'enhanced' to lose reciprocity with other states.  Those of us with now 'enhanced' permits got no benefits that people in other states with 'enhanced' permits have, which include legal school, college campus carry, and in general ability to carry about anywhere without worrying about "am I legal here?" .

 

[walthermitty]

I think the new concealed carry permit might cause more incidental interactions with law enforcement, maybe where people call because they saw a gun sticking out.  Printing is supposed to be forgiven, if accidental, but it will still cause an interruption and aggravation.  Hopefully, there are no negative consequences.

Dawn White voted for it.  I had written, asking her to vote against it.  I thought about that.  I noticed that the TFA was against the legislation, but the NRA supported it.  This is troublesome.  I think the NRA's support was only because they could brag about being pro-gun.  And, White voted for it to get a better rating from the NRA.  I think the NRA was absolutely wrong to ignore the TFA.

[chances R]

There is no TN law regarding printing.  Given the new, ill-thought out law, I doubt one will see any charges with open carry vs. concealed.  Hopefully no tragedies occur; if so ALL permit holders will share the negative light.

[Chucktshoes]

There’s no incremental gains here. It’s a bad bill that will result in a net loss for folks who carry in and out of the state. All for some politicians to be able to make a claim of being pro-2A while not having the desire nor the balls to actually put forth and advance actual pro-2A legislation. 

[A.J. Holst]

ChancesR said he's had students barely pass the class. I know him, he can shoot and I am confident he can teach a new gun owner basic marksmanship.

Just like your driver's license, you didn't get better or magically become a good driver...or plumber, tileman, electrician, doctor, lawyer, teacher or preacher.

It took practice, time, and experience.

Whether you get the video version or shooting version of the HCP, is continuing education, even if occasional static range practice and YouTube videos with dry manipulations a wise choice?

Advanced training runs from $100 -. $200 for a one day class with a professional instructor and a two day is $300 - $400.

What are you willing and able to sacrifice to invest in yourself?

[DaveTN]

So now this is about training? The streets are going to run red with blood? Seems I’ve heard this before; but it was coming from the other side. 

I doubt many people fail the range test, and the rest can be done online.

I have no facts or figures to back it up (because I haven’t tried) but it seems to me we see more negligent shootings from those that handle guns often and claimed to be trained than those that are not.

Saying a pro-gun bill will cause us to lose our privileges in other states is hyperbole. I guess some state, somewhere, could say “Oh Tennessee has two different types of carry permits; we better revoked their carry privileges in our state!” It could happen; but common sense tells me it isn’t likely. If it does happen; so be it. We can’t structure our laws around what other states may think.

I predict that if this bill passes, those of us that have HCP’s now, will come out the other side unscathed. However more people will join the carry crowd, and most of those will already have the very minimal skills required to pass a test; or will seek to acquire them. They will be, after all, law abiding citizens that have made it to 21 without doing anything too awfully stupid.

[A.J. Holst]

3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

So now this is about training?

Not really, the training offered by the state is inconsistent at best. 

Requiring advanced instruction is ludicrous, who will the state endorse, of course there will be a curriculum (geared towards the lowest common denominator) and a another office of .gov to train, license, and monitor the approved trainers.

The 2A refers to a well regulated militia. I have gun owning friends in whom I have zero confidence covering my 6, much less your back, if they showed up to help us out.

Good news, we could beat them up and take their stuff, it's top shelf merchandise and they got a lot of it.

 

[chances R]

The required training by the state is now a mandatory PowerPoint presentation.  Done properly, it is a jam packed 8 hrs. So that helps to have a more consistent presentation across the state.  It’s emphasis is on safety and TN gun law.  No one should think this is a course to teach one how to shoot. Although it is not unusual for half the class to have little or no shooting experience. It is no surprise to me that more accidents happen to so-called experienced gun owners....that is called complacency.  Regardless of the permit or constitutional carry, it will boil down to personal responsibility.  That should make everyone feel safer. 🥺

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, A.J. Holst said:

Not really, the training offered by the state is inconsistent at best. 

Requiring advanced instruction is ludicrous, who will the state endorse, of course there will be a curriculum (geared towards the lowest common denominator) and a another office of .gov to train, license, and monitor the approved trainers.

The 2A refers to a well regulated militia. I have gun owning friends in whom I have zero confidence covering my 6, much less your back, if they showed up to help us out.

Good news, we could beat them up and take their stuff, it's top shelf merchandise and they got a lot of it.

 

Inconsistent is a nice word for it; not one I would use. But I’m not suggesting the state require training; my point is it is up to the gun owner to get the training, since they are the one that will be held responsible for their actions.

You could end the argument about training very quickly. Make permits holders take the same classroom training, pass the same tests, take the same range training and pass the same tests on that as a Police Officer where they live. I’m not suggesting that, but then the only arguing you would have would be from those that can’t pass it and those that don’t think their Police Officers are well trained.

I don’t support that because it would hamper a person’s 2nd amendment Constitutional Right to bear arms and their inalienable right of life. Being trained is their responsibility. I do support that requirement as a requirement for those that want to be armed security officers in schools; exactly the same requirements as the cops where they live. No Constitutional rights involved.

[A.J. Holst]

49 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I don’t support that because it would hamper a person’s 2nd amendment Constitutional Right to bear arms and their inalienable right of life. Being trained is their responsibility. I do support that requirement as a requirement for those that want to be armed security officers in schools; exactly the same requirements as the cops where they live. No Constitutional rights involved.

Well stated!

[Jeb48]

I thought it was interesting that in NY (top three anti states) you had to have a concealed carry permit to even own a handgun (or touch) but all you needed was time and money to get a permit. Took me 9 months and that was living in a very conservative county, some counties took two years and you might get turned down for not giving a good enough reason for needing the permit (no refund on fees). But no training at all, not even class room. I took to levels of NRA handgun courses even though I had used a handgun before moving to NY 40 years before, because I wanted to. Got my Utah permit and had 8 hours of classroom and took a couple of months. TN with training was about 10 days.

In my class of 25 or so I think there were 2 that got in the 90s and the rest of us 100 on the live shooting. That included a couple of people that had never shot a handgun and the instructor took extra time with.

[battleop]

On 5/3/2019 at 6:31 PM, DaveTN said:

No one is removing the class requirement

Switching to an online class vs an actual class.   How do they know you are the one that took the class and someone didn't do it for you?

[Defender]

9 minutes ago, battleop said:

Switching to an online class vs an actual class.   How do they know you are the one that took the class and someone didn't do it for you?

That would be illegal...people dont just break  laws...do they?

[DaveTN]

16 hours ago, battleop said:

Switching to an online class vs an actual class.   How do they know you are the one that took the class and someone didn't do it for you?

You cut the part of my post that gives you your answer.

On 5/3/2019 at 5:31 PM, DaveTN said:

No one is removing the class requirement, no matter how much you know. You still have to take the class and you still have to shoot the qualification course that will give you a permit that has reciprocity.

The online class is for those that want a CHCP. They obviously won’t be able to carry in some states. If you want a EHCP (What is now the HCP) you still have to go to a real class and shoot a qualification.

As far as the online class… I don’t know if or how they would know if someone else took it. Probably make it a crime.??...or not. 

[Oh Shoot]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

.....

The online class is for those that want a CHCP. They obviously won’t be able to carry in some states. If you want a EHCP (What is now the HCP) you still have to go to a real class and shoot a qualification.

....

Still, I'll be surprised if some states don't drop reciprocity for all TN carry permits though, as they'll see it unreasonable for their LEAs to have to distinguish between two types of permits, one of which doesn't qualify for carry.

After all, WA and MN could have still honored TN permits for those who are 21, but rather, they zapped reciprocity for all.

- OS

Edited May 8, 2019 by Oh Shoot

[Chucktshoes]

18 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

Still, I'll be surprised if some states don't drop reciprocity for all TN carry permits though, as they'll see it unreasonable for their LEAs to have to distinguish between two types of permits, one of which doesn't qualify for carry.

After all, WA and MN could have still honored TN permits for those who are 21, but rather, they zapped reciprocity for all.

- OS

Bingo! 

[DaveTN]

23 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

Still, I'll be surprised if some states don't drop reciprocity for all TN carry permits though, as they'll see it unreasonable for their LEAs to have to distinguish between two types of permits, one of which doesn't qualify for carry.

After all, WA and MN could have still honored TN permits for those who are 21, but rather, they zapped reciprocity for all.

- OS

But some states didn’t; they just said they wouldn’t honor them for those under 21.

If our legislators would acknowledge a 2nd amendment right to bear arms; all this would be moot, we wouldn’t need two classes of permits.

If other states are looking for a reason to kick Tennessee permits; they don’t this to do it. And quite frankly it isn’t fair to Tennessee residents that can’t afford a EHCP, to not get this because of what some other state may do.

[Oh Shoot]

3 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

But some states didn’t; they just said they wouldn’t honor them for those under 21.

It's significant for ANY state to drop reciprocity seems to me. Especially a big deal of course for those who travel to those states regularly.

- OS

[DaveTN]

54 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

It's significant for ANY state to drop reciprocity seems to me. Especially a big deal of course for those who travel to those states regularly.

- OS

I don’t deny it’s a big deal; if it was going to happen. Would I support Tennesseans not being able to carry here to protect my being able to carry in another state? Of course not.

But of course you certainly have the right to your opinion; same as me.

Are there not other states that have this regular/enhanced stuff?

[Oh Shoot]

7 hours ago, DaveTN said:

....

Are there not other states that have this regular/enhanced stuff?

Yes, but I don't know of any states which honor one level but not the other.

BTW, I meant to ask pursuant to your earlier statement:

Quote

But some states didn’t; they just said they wouldn’t honor them for those under 21.

Can you point me to states that have these different "levels of recognition" for permit holders from another state?
 

- OS

Edited May 9, 2019 by Oh Shoot
clarity of syntax

[Omega]

5 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

Yes, but I don't know of any states which honor one level but not the other.

BTW, I meant to ask pursuant to your earlier statement:

Can you point me to states that have these different "levels of recognition" for permit holders from another state?
 

- OS

I don't know about the 21 or over part, but there are some states that just honor residential permits, and not the non-resident ones.  If a LEO can tell those apart, then these two shouldn't be an issue.

https://www.gunstocarry.com/gun-laws-state/tennessee-gun-laws/#tn-map

I still don't like it though, seems more of a money grab, more permits, than a pro 2A thing to me. If they truly wanted a pro 2A bill, then constitutional carry would have been what they should have wrnt for. Or at the very least,  made vast improvements to the current permit.  But as it is, it's less than ideal.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Omega
Add link

[DaveTN]

15 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

Can you point me to states that have these different "levels of recognition" for permit holders from another state?

I’m not going to go hunt for it, but it seems I remember about 6 states (Not absolutely sure on the number) that changed their position on Tennessee when the age was lowered. The two you bring up that stopped reciprocity, and the others that just said they would not recognize those under 21. But its possible I’m not remembering correctly.

[hornett22]

If you can afford $65,you can afford $100.

[DaveTN]

10 hours ago, hornett22 said:

If you can afford $65,you can afford $100.

And 50-100 for the class.

That may be true, but when the bill started it was 0. The $65 was added later.

[cybernorris]

Can someone summarize what happens to the existing permits? Are they now equal to the enhanced permit?

When does this take effect? If I didn’t go with the lifetime before, should I upgrade now before this new law hits?... or am I already too late?