TN Castle Doctrine in car under age 21 over 18

[peejman]

3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Exactly

It doesn’t appear to be clear. If it is clear, what makes you think they couldn’t have it on their person?

If you feel the need to put it in a locked container either; don't take it or put it in the trunk. Because at that point the law (carry in a car) we are discussing no longer applies.

 

 

 

Fair points. My assumption is (was) an HCP would be necessary to have on your person, but you don't need a HCP to carry on your own property, and since the car is considered an extention of your home, so...  ???   

As for being young and irresponsible, I doubt there's any noticeable difference between 18 and 21. If anything, I probably had more fun in my early 20's than I did right after high school. 

[Sky]

Anybody still paying attention to this post? I live in Knox county and and have done all my research and can definitely say it is legal for 18 yo to have handgun in the car. My dad and I called the Knox co sherif department and the guy was dead set on saying it was illegal. I am 100% sure he just didn’t know what he was talking about. It’s a gray area that most people are uneducated in, but it is definitely legal. I printed off a stack of papers of the US Federal Code and TN State Code, and highlighted everything that proves it’s legal, and it’s what I bring with me in the car. And yea, an unlicensed person may sell a handgun to someone 18 and up

[Garufa]

39 minutes ago, Sky said:

Anybody still paying attention to this post? I live in Knox county and and have done all my research and can definitely say it is legal for 18 yo to have handgun in the car. My dad and I called the Knox co sherif department and the guy was dead set on saying it was illegal. I am 100% sure he just didn’t know what he was talking about. It’s a gray area that most people are uneducated in, but it is definitely legal. I printed off a stack of papers of the US Federal Code and TN State Code, and highlighted everything that proves it’s legal, and it’s what I bring with me in the car. And yea, an unlicensed person may sell a handgun to someone 18 and up

What’s to pay attention to?  If you are between 18 and 21 you’re living in that gray that you mentioned as far as carrying a gun in your car.

Phone calls to the Sheriff don’t mean jack.  

Carrying around a bunch of papers and playing roadside lawyer will get you jack as well.

Cops do not know the fine nuances of the law.  They are not lawyers, prosecutors, or judges, just underpaid folks doing what they’re  told to do.

Point being...what’s the rush to be armed?  

Edited June 1, 2019 by Garufa

[Sky]

2 hours ago, Garufa said:

What’s to pay attention to?  If you are between 18 and 21 you’re living in that gray that you mentioned as far as carrying a gun in your car.

Phone calls to the Sheriff don’t mean jack.  

Carrying around a bunch of papers and playing roadside lawyer will get you jack as well.

Cops do not know the fine nuances of the law.  They are not lawyers, prosecutors, or judges, just underpaid folks doing what they’re  told to do.

Point being...what’s the rush to be armed?  

By paying attention I just meant did the guy that created the thread decide what he thought to be the answer. To be honest the rush to be armed for me is that i have a street legal side x side (a rzr) which makes it a vehicle, and I go riding alone at windrock in the woods all the time where everybody else has guns. Just makes me feel better, especially when there's big groups of people and I'm just alone in the woods without any service

Edited June 1, 2019 by Sky

[DaveTN]

11 hours ago, Sky said:

I am 100% sure he just didn’t know what he was talking about. It’s a gray area that most people are uneducated in, but it is definitely legal. 

That statement doesn’t make sense. 

11 hours ago, Sky said:

 I printed off a stack of papers of the US Federal Code and TN State Code, and highlighted everything that proves it’s legal, and it’s what I bring with me in the car. 

Educate us. Do you have something other than the statues I posted on the first page? What documentation do you have that will convince an Officer if he thinks its illegal?

You have to do whatever you are ready to take responsibility for. I wouldn’t go in the woods without being armed. Anytime possession of a gun becomes an issue, my first question is always “How did the gun become an issue?” Those circumstances usually drive the outcome.

As I said before; because the Tennessee law that allows this (39-17-1307) has the text “Is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) or purchasing a firearm by § 39-17-1316” an argument could be made that 39-17-1316 makes it illegal (Background Check)for anyone under 21 to purchase a handgun from a dealer; and therefore can’t carry in a car. Tennessee lawmakers should have made it clear what their intent was. 

[Omega]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

That statement doesn’t make sense. 

Educate us. Do you have something other than the statues I posted on the first page? What documentation do you have that will convince an Officer if he thinks its illegal?

You have to do whatever you are ready to take responsibility for. I wouldn’t go in the woods without being armed. Anytime possession of a gun becomes an issue, my first question is always “How did the gun become an issue?” Those circumstances usually drive the outcome.

As I said before; because the Tennessee law that allows this (39-17-1307) has the text “Is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) or purchasing a firearm by § 39-17-1316” an argument could be made that 39-17-1316 makes it illegal (Background Check)for anyone under 21 to purchase a handgun from a dealer; and therefore can’t carry in a car. Tennessee lawmakers should have made it clear what their intent was. 

I look at it differently; most laws tell you what you can't do, so we get the bit about over 21 to buy from FFL.  But, an 18 yo is not prohibited from owning a gun by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) or by § 39-17-1316.  So, an 18 yo may purchase a gun privately and have/carry such gun in a home or vehicle, just not off his premises or on his person in public.

[Sky]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

That statement doesn’t make sense. 

Educate us. Do you have something other than the statues I posted on the first page? What documentation do you have that will convince an Officer if he thinks its illegal?

You have to do whatever you are ready to take responsibility for. I wouldn’t go in the woods without being armed. Anytime possession of a gun becomes an issue, my first question is always “How did the gun become an issue?” Those circumstances usually drive the outcome.

As I said before; because the Tennessee law that allows this (39-17-1307) has the text “Is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) or purchasing a firearm by § 39-17-1316” an argument could be made that 39-17-1316 makes it illegal (Background Check)for anyone under 21 to purchase a handgun from a dealer; and therefore can’t carry in a car. Tennessee lawmakers should have made it clear what their intent was. 

My mistake, I thought the term "gray area" just meant it was confusing. After looking it up I now see it means "not readily conforming to an existing set of rules."

But it kind of is a gray area, because there is nothing specifically saying you can or cannot have a handgun in the car at 18. However, after looking at all the surrounding laws in 922 (unlawful acts) and the castle doctrine and on the TN state code, to me it is pretty clear because it doesn't say it's illegal anywhere. Hence why I said it definitely is legal. Its like connecting the dots... one  law leads to another

As for the documentation to show the officer, I mean the only documentation that is necessary is exactly what the US code and Tn code says. Thats what the law is. I know an officer would probably not even want to look at it Ive seen videos of people who know what they're doing is lawful and try to provide some documents, but almost always the officer don't wanna listen. What I would like to ask an officer is to show me some documents that says its unlawful... there isn't any. I know asking them those smart ass questions will probably jus get you in cuffs but it's the logical proper way to have an argument. 

As you said an argument could be made under 37-17-1316 says its illegal for anyone under 21 to purchase a handgun from a dealer, I mean i don't know how you can defend that argument because handguns are not only bought from FFL dealers, they too brought in a private sale. And as you sated, private sellers can sell handguns to age 18 and up.

I kind of have repeated what others have already said in this thread I know but I couldn't help but comment on this because this topic has been on my mind for a couple years. I always looked up this same question and nobody had specifically asked it until this guy did just a month ago

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Sky

[DaveTN]

3 hours ago, Omega said:

I look at it differently; most laws tell you what you can't do, so we get the bit about over 21 to buy from FFL.  But, an 18 yo is not prohibited from owning a gun by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) or by § 39-17-1316.  So, an 18 yo may purchase a gun privately and have/carry such gun in a home or vehicle, just not off his premises or on his person in public.

I agree with you.

However….two people have called the PD in the area in question. One was told they “absolutely could not” have a gun in the car, the other said whoever they talked to was “Dead Set” on saying it was illegal. We don’t know who they talked to, could have been a desk clerk, a dispatcher, or a rookie that doesn’t know. Or it could have been a Command Officer that has talked with and got the opinion of the local DA.

So for my kids this would have been a teaching moment. 

[Croakerhouck]

I have carried a loaded handgun in my car every since I was 18(which I also purchased private sale). I was even pulled over once when I was 18 in TN for accidently pulling out in front of a police cruiser, and I politely told the man my age and the fact I had a loaded handgun in my car, and he told he that was perfectly legal and within my rights at that age.

Hope this helps!

[Sky]

2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

the other said whoever they talked to was “Dead Set” on saying it was illegal. We don’t know who they talked to

It was just a sheriff at the department we talked to. don't know what ranking or anything

[Sky]

1 hour ago, Croakerhouck said:

I have carried a loaded handgun in my car every since I was 18(which I also purchased private sale). I was even pulled over once when I was 18 in TN for accidently pulling out in front of a police cruiser, and I politely told the man my age and the fact I had a loaded handgun in my car, and he told he that was perfectly legal and within my rights at that age.

Hope this helps!

That is good to know, thanks for the info. Don't know anybody else who has done it. of course not all officers know all the rights

Edited June 1, 2019 by Sky

[chances R]

Most on this site can certainly appreciate the importance of having a means of self-defense readily available while traveling.  TN Castle Law includes automobiles.  In fact the HCP power point was changed as it specifically referenced 21yo and handguns.  Later was changed to reflect the purchase by 21yo and above.  Some LEO will not know the law and there may indeed be some question and possibly an arrest.  Anyone under 21 and having a handgun in their car must certainly be aware of the law and maintain a polite demeanor while any problem is worked out.  But the bottom line is it is legal and especially important especially for traveling females, ie to and from college, work, etc.

[Sky]

2 hours ago, chances R said:

But the bottom line is it is legal and especially important especially for traveling females, ie to and from college, work, etc.

well said i agree