Bill would grant forgiveness to people who accidentally ignore 'No Firearms' signs at businesses

[FortKnox]

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/bill-would-grant-forgiveness-to-people-who-accidentally-ignore-no-firearms-signs-at-businesses

[mikegideon]

I have accidentally ignored a bunch of them. Never know when I may accidentally ignore them again. This is a good law. I will obey it.

[tnhawk]

I hope this bill passes.  I  would make an effort to accidentally ignore every no firearms sign I see.

[John75]

That's one thing I miss about living in Alabama, the signs didn't mean anything. 

[DaveTN]

2 minutes ago, John75 said:

That's one thing I miss about living in Alabama, the signs didn't mean anything. 

They don't mean much here.

Quote

Boyd admits that in the past five years, no violations were given for gun owners committing the crime, but he believes this sets a guideline in case such a circumstance were to happen.

 

[300winmag]

The whole no gun signs weapons crime should be repealed in Tennessee but the pro gun legislature just is not pro gun enough to do that so that is why you are seeing this fix. Trespassing laws cover that situation sufficient in most other states that do not have that sort of silly weapons crime.

The sad thing is that this may be the only pro gun carry bill that gets passed this year.  Unless something last minute happens in the legislature, it does not look like we will get school carry or college carry legalized for someone with a handgun carry permit. We probably are not getting constitutional carry either.  Maybe that less expensive carry permit will be the cookie crumbs thrown our way so the politicians have the appearance of doing something pro gun.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

We complain about more pro 2A legislation not getting passed (and often for good reason what good is a pro gun majority if you don't pass any pro gun bills?) .....but keep in mind that it could be far worse. We could put the OTHER guys in charge and have to be constantly fighting to keep ANTI 2A from getting passed. So I'll take the underachieving pro gun majority over ANY kind of anti gun majority....

 

Having said that...the signage law needs to go away .....It only penalizes people who are likely to follow the law anyway. Of course they could make the poster of the property civilly liable if a violent crime happens and people are injured. If you don't let me carry my legally owned and carried gun in your establishment and your establishment gets shot up then I and everyone else should be able to sue you for disarming us and not providing protection. Pretty simple.   

[mikegideon]

6 hours ago, tnhawk said:

I hope this bill passes.  I  would make an effort to accidentally ignore every no firearms sign I see.

You are a good citizen.

[mikegideon]

7 minutes ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

We complain about more pro 2A legislation not getting passed (and often for good reason what good is a pro gun majority if you don't pass any pro gun bills?) .....but keep in mind that it could be far worse. We could put the OTHER guys in charge and have to be constantly fighting to keep ANTI 2A from getting passed. So I'll take the underachieving pro gun majority over ANY kind of anti gun majority....

 

Having said that...the signage law needs to go away .....It only penalizes people who are likely to follow the law anyway. Of course they could make the poster of the property civilly liable if a violent crime happens and people are injured. If you don't let me carry my legally owned and carried gun in your establishment and your establishment gets shot up then I and everyone else should be able to sue you for disarming us and not providing protection. Pretty simple.   

That law is there to pacify the gun haters and the property rights crowd. Gun fear is an irrational thing. Sign law needs to go. Serves no practical purpose. They KNOW people are ignoring the signs, and that it's virtually impossible to enforce without metal detectors

[Omega]

I won't knowingly violate the "no gun" signs, I figure if they don't want me in there, I don't want me in there.  But I have found myself in places where I noticed the sign well after been inside for awhile, and would have been inconvenient to leave.  The way I figure, trespass laws are enough to enforce "no gun" signs, it should not automatically be breaking the law.

[peejman]

This seems like just another unnecessary law.  It solves a problem that doesn't exist.  It's really closer to an AG opinion than a law.  It provides guidance in special circumstances.... circumstances that don't appear to exist given zero citations in 5 years.  

If they want to change the law to simple trespassing, great.  Else let the LEO's (continue to) use their discretion.  It would seem that's working just fine. 

[300winmag]

Most states don't have weapons crimes for carrying past a sign like TN does for people with permits.  The problem with the no guns signs in TN is that technically they can result in weapons charges not just on private property but also on publicly owned property, such as your state government owned buildings.  A misdemeanor weapons crime conviction can result in you having problems with your handgun carry permit unless I am wrong.  A misdemeanor trespass conviction I don't think would cause problems with your handgun carry permit.

Luckily right now the law does not seem to be used as a criminal charge, but it could be used and would cause people with permits legal problems.

Trespass works in other states for people who fail to leave when asked and would work here fine instead of this sort of law.

Modifying the sign law is better than nothing.  The best would be just to scrap it but the politicians are too scared to do that.  This shows that the politicians may not do much pro gun wise this year for carry rights.

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by 300winmag

[billmeek]

I follow any posted signs restricting carry on premises... even ones that don't meet the state requirements. For me, it's voting with my money.  If they want my cash they shouldn't have signs for no carrying.  

[owejia]

What happened to this bill? Did it ever gain any traction in our "pro gun" legislature?

[A.J. Holst]

2 hours ago, owejia said:

What happened to this bill? Did it ever gain any traction in our "pro gun" legislature?

With recent pushes to decriminalize crossing the border, it's like a mini immigration policy.

Let's extend it to .gov property as well.

[Refleks]

Just remove the force of law behind no carry signs and I'd be happy.

[chances R]

I am tired of  'feel good' legislation.  Practical, simple, logical legislation should be implemented for whatever the problem or subject is.  I have nothing against private property owners posting.  I don't like it, but I can go and shop other places....as mentioned, vote with my pocketbook.  I do support carry that parallels that of local LEO.  If one has the 'enhanced permit' that should suffice.  This CCP legislation is just another 'feel good' piece of legislation that only complicates the situation.  Just like this proposal.  We need legislation that supports legitimate training and the law abiding gun owner/carrier.  Support the LEO equal carry policy and the sign issue simply goes away.

 

[CrimsonClover]

How do we find out the status of this bill?

[DaveTN]

19 minutes ago, CrimsonClover said:

How do we find out the status of this bill?

Here is a list of the bills sponsored or co-sponsored by Representative Boyd. I don’t see any bill like that; but I could have overlooked it.

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/sponsorlist/default.aspx?ID=H460&ga=111

 

[CrimsonClover]

Thanks, I just checked here and didn't see it

https://www.billtrack50.com/LegislatorDetail/22657

I will check your link and email him if I don't see it

[CrimsonClover]

He replied -
I passed it in the House of Representatives but the senate wasn’t able to pass it on their side.

[300winmag]

'Pro gun' Tennessee Republican legislators failed again to pass an easy gun carry bill.  The bill is only somewhat helpful and does not even get rid of the sign law. 

At this rate, it might get done in another ten years after half of the country has constitutional carry. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by 300winmag

[DaveTN]

17 minutes ago, 300winmag said:

'Pro gun' Tennessee Republican legislators failed again to pass an easy gun carry bill.  It might get done in another ten years after half of the country has constitutional carry. 

I don’t think that telling business owners that they can post their property, but it has no weight of law is an easy thing to do. Do you? 

I’m pro gun but I’m against it for several reasons. 1. it’s their property if they don’t want guns on it; so be it. 2. It’s arrogance on the part of the state. Unless they want to recognize a 2nd amendment right to carry they don’t get to act as a thug government on business owners. 3. Why are any pro gun legislators time or resources being wasted on this? No one has been charged with it. Move on to Constitutional Carry legislation.

[Omega]

2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I don’t think that telling business owners that they can post their property, but it has no weight of law is an easy thing to do. Do you? 

I’m pro gun but I’m against it for several reasons. 1. it’s their property if they don’t want guns on it; so be it. 2. It’s arrogance on the part of the state. Unless they want to recognize a 2nd amendment right to carry they don’t get to act as a thug government on business owners. 3. Why are any pro gun legislators time or resources being wasted on this? No one has been charged with it. Move on to Constitutional Carry legislation.

I don't think anyone wants to tell a business they can't post, but it is squarely on them to deal with their customers as they see fit.  Nobody stopped Starbucks from kicking out those cops because one of their snowflakes felt unsafe now did it?  If the cops, or in our case the customer, refuses to leave, then they can have him tresspassed.  I've only been here for 19.5 years, as a supposed simpethetic 2A State, we certainly don't have the right law makers in place with anything bigger than BBs or they would have passed meaningfull 2A legislation by now.  All the supposed pro 2A laws I've seen passed always comes with anti-gun loopholes.

[DaveTN]

4 minutes ago, Omega said:

I don't think anyone wants to tell a business they can't post, but it is squarely on them to deal with their customers as they see fit.  Nobody stopped Starbucks from kicking out those cops because one of their snowflakes felt unsafe now did it?  If the cops, or in our case the customer, refuses to leave, then they can have him tresspassed. 

Starbucks stopped it; to everyone’s satisfaction. Other than the snowflake and the employee that was apparently either a snowflake, cop hater, or just stupid.

Business employees shouldn't have to deal with someone with a gun when their premises are posted. And most won't, they will just call the cops. Once that starts with the cops having no authority to make an arrest; you will have dirt bags doing it just to make YouTube Videos. Just like the clowns in Texas did with taking their AR's to the local Starbucks. 

4 minutes ago, Omega said:

I've only been here for 19.5 years, as a supposed simpethetic 2A State, we certainly don't have the right law makers in place with anything bigger than BBs or they would have passed meaningfull 2A legislation by now.  All the supposed pro 2A laws I've seen passed always comes with anti-gun loopholes.

I will have been here 21 years in September and I have never seen a step backward or any anti-gun loopholes. Tell us what you have seen.

If you have a permit; you can carry most places…even bars. Since just recently you don’t even need a permit to have a gun in your car. Your carry permit covers loaded rifles in your vehicle, and you can buy and sell privately to your hearts content.

The many years I have been on this forum I, and others have been told “Baby Steps”, we have to take “Baby Steps”. There are no baby steps left. We are at the point of Constitutional carry. But no, what are we worried about? We are worried about taking away the right of a business owner to ban firearms from his property and worried that we can’t walk onto school grounds armed.