PSA: Dump Yer Bump

[Omega]

3 hours ago, mikegideon said:

Annnd.... the 3D print files are on the Internet! 

Now why would we want to 3d print his brain??

[Chucktshoes]

7 minutes ago, Omega said:

Now why would we want to 3d print his brain??

You don’t. You really, really don’t. 

[DaveTN]

2 hours ago, Omega said:

Now why would we want to 3d print his brain??

Exactly. A regular 2D printer would suffice. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by DaveTN

[Trekbike]

On 3/26/2019 at 12:09 PM, GlockSpock said:

It's a shame this happened in the first place the way it did...but it's even a bigger slap in the face that they were not "buying back" the stocks.

It's a shame.

While it's a shame that the consumers have lost the cost of the stock, that's a drop in the bucket to what the owner(s) of the company have lost.   All that time, effort, and money now down the toilet for a law change that won't make a real difference in solving the problem.      

I'm guessing the gov will take the stance of using this as an "add on charge" if it's discovered, rather than the door knock method based on sales records, if they're smart...        

 

[GlockSpock]

1 minute ago, Trekbike said:

While it's a shame that the consumers have lost the cost of the stock, that's a drop in the bucket to what the owner(s) of the company have lost.   All that time, effort, and money now down the toilet for a law change that won't make a real difference in solving the problem.      

I'm guessing the gov will take the stance of using this as an "add on charge" if it's discovered, rather than the door knock method based on sales records, if they're smart...        

 

Agreed. I think a person would be stupid to either take one to a range or transport it in their vehicle. I'm not advocating keeping them because that is very obviously illegal at this point, but I don't foresee them attempting to track any of them down based on orders/purchases.

I do foresee (potentially) some pro-gun jurisdictions/cops turning a blind-eye, but I also see anti-gun jurisdictions/cops attempting to treat them exactly as an illegal machine-gun if they run across them.

[Chucktshoes]

46 minutes ago, Trekbike said:

I'm guessing the gov will take the stance of using this as an "add on charge" if it's discovered, rather than the door knock method based on sales records, if they're smart...        

 

I fervently hope that no jurisdictions attempt any door-knocks based on sales records. While I’m not in any way suggesting that bump stocks will lead to some mass insurerction, I guarantee that door-knocks over them will absolutely lead to dead cops and civilians. Nobody wants that. 

[GlockSpock]

56 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I fervently hope that no jurisdictions attempt any door-knocks based on sales records. While I’m not in any way suggesting that bump stocks will lead to some mass insurerction, I guarantee that door-knocks over them will absolutely lead to dead cops and civilians. Nobody wants that. 

I'm still curious about one thing.

The law clearly defines a machine gun as more than one round fired per function of the trigger, correct?

Lets say someone got arrested for possession of a machine gun (but is really a bump stock). It seems that the law itself could/would be in the defendants favor.

IANAL

I also know that in all likelihood, that person would go to prison.

Edited March 28, 2019 by GlockSpock

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

I'm still curious about one thing.

The law clearly defines a machine gun as more than one round fired per function of the trigger, correct?

Lets say someone got arrested for possession of a machine gun (but is really a bump stock). It seems that the law itself could/would be in the defendants favor.

IANAL

I also know that in all likelihood, that person would go to prison.

That’s the rub. The letter of the law does not match up to this decision. That’s why they were approved in the first place. But this is America where nothing makes sense and words don’t mean anything. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Chucktshoes

[GlockSpock]

1 minute ago, Chucktshoes said:

That’s the rub. The letter of the law does not match up to this decision. That’s why they were approved in the first place. But this is America where nothing makes sense and words don’t mean anything. 

Oh, I know and completely disagree with it. The last time the NRA called and asked me a question regarding where they should "focus on" in the  next year, I lost it. It was multiple choice,, and I forget the possible answers.

I told them to actually do something pro-gun for once and pointed out that in two years Trump has already done more anti-gun stuff than the entire eight years of Obama.

She basically said she couldn't really make a comment on any of that and thanked me for my time.

[Fourtyfive]

https://www.apnews.com/fd130eb80f1e47eabe70809f7fcd338b

 

[FUJIMO]

18 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

https://www.apnews.com/fd130eb80f1e47eabe70809f7fcd338b

 

Well I feel safer ....

[Ronald_55]

Those evil pieces of plastic...now they can't hurt anyone...just like all other inanimate objects...

I mean you know some guy planning to shoot up a mall somewhere turned his in the same day....

[m16ty]

From what I've heard, nobody has turned one in, and I've got a feeling they aren't being destroyed. There are even several folks publicly stating they will not comply. I honestly don't think it will be enforced by the ATF, unless it's connected to another crime, or some local agency calls them about one, forcing their hand. It's just some feel good BS that looks good on paper to politicians. 

I think somebody would have a decent chance in court to win, but it's going to cost a bundle of money to try it.  

[TGO David]

10 hours ago, m16ty said:

From what I've heard, nobody has turned one in, and I've got a feeling they aren't being destroyed. There are even several folks publicly stating they will not comply. I honestly don't think it will be enforced by the ATF, unless it's connected to another crime, or some local agency calls them about one, forcing their hand. It's just some feel good BS that looks good on paper to politicians. 

I think somebody would have a decent chance in court to win, but it's going to cost a bundle of money to try it.  

Let me state first that I am not picking on you here.  You simply made some statements that are a good segue into something we all need to talk about.

That said, I think you are entirely correct that people aren't wholesale rushing to turn them in or destroy them.  Perhaps that's because there are still some lawsuits against the government pending that haven't been decided upon yet and owners of these devices are reluctant to destroy something today that, while illegal, might be taken back off of the prohibited items list tomorrow.

Or perhaps it really is just an act of civil disobedience and the folks that own these are silently giving the government a defiant middle finger.  And, you know, our nation was founded on that principle so I can't fault anyone who's operating under that mindset.  It's in our DNA and resonates with me pretty deeply.

BUT...  the fact remains that bump stocks are, currently at least, lumped into the same category as a machinegun and there was no provision granted to grandfather them in, or allow citizens to register them as NFA-regulated devices and legitimize them with a tax stamp.  They are, therefore, illegal to own and discovery of ownership carries hefty fines and potentially imprisonment.

Now, does that mean that the BATFE is going to go door to door looking for bump stocks?  Highly unlikely.

But what it does mean is that a citizen's bump stock could be discovered by coincidence during a search or seizure for another crime, and now that citizen would very likely be charged with a Federal firearms crime that carries heavy penalties.  Even if the original reason for the search or seizure was a misdemeanor crime.  Say, like getting pulled over for running a stop sign and the officer feels that there's reason to search your vehicle for contraband and finds a bump stock you forgot about in the trunk of your car.

Or, if you really want to make it realistic, say your spouse or significant other accuses you of domestic violence -- whether founded or not -- and the police come to your home to investigate.   Suppose in the course of that they find your secret stash of bump stocks.  Now you're facing the same sort of penalties that former Nashville-area KIA hockster Christopher Bostick was hit with back in 2015 and finally sentenced for just last year.

Bostick was investigated for a domestic issue originally, but the police found two "sub machineguns", neither of which were properly registered to him under NFA laws.  Instant felony charges.

 

You can read about that here:  https://www.wsmv.com/news/former-nashville-kia-dealer-sentenced-on-gun-charges/article_2ecbc3e6-3e2a-5666-9f79-db4d438ca394.html

 

So, the bottom line here is that anyone who continues to own a bump stock needs to engage in a serious soul-searching exercise.  While I think that the current power-grab by the Trump administration regarding these devices is egregious, unconstitutional, abhorrent, and hopefully will be struck down by the Supreme Court, I am also a realist and suspect it won't be and these devices will never again see legal ownership in the United States.

Keeping one around as a middle finger at the government is a personal choice.  Some of our founding fathers likely would approve of it too.  But they also had to do some soul-searching when they stood up to the King of England, and many of them paid terribly high prices for it even though it earned the rest of us freedom and a new country.

I question whether modern Americans are really patriot-enough to risk everything the way that those men did.

 

[Fourtyfive]

So we have to look back at the strap using handicap brace type devices. Legal, legal to shoulder, not legal to shoulder, and now legal to shoulder..... Where and when is the line drawn? Whenever they feel like it.....

[hipower]

44 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

So we have to look back at the strap using handicap brace type devices. Legal, legal to shoulder, not legal to shoulder, and now legal to shoulder..... Where and when is the line drawn? Whenever they feel like it.....

Silly. But in a one word answer...yes.

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, Fourtyfive said:

So we have to look back at the strap using handicap brace type devices. Legal, legal to shoulder, not legal to shoulder, and now legal to shoulder..... Where and when is the line drawn? Whenever they feel like it.....

 

20 minutes ago, hipower said:

Silly. But in a one word answer...yes.

Bingo!

[tnhawk]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 10:03 AM, mikegideon said:

Annnd.... the 3D print files are on the Internet! 

ATF is on the internet!

[mikegideon]

6 hours ago, tnhawk said:

ATF is on the internet!

If they have time, they can look at my hard drive. Don't think the files are illegal.

From the viewer...

Edited March 31, 2019 by mikegideon

[Fourtyfive]