Bill introduced to create 'enhanced' handgun carry permits

[FortKnox]

https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Bill-introduced-to-create-two-handgun-carry-permits-506817071.html

[lock n' load]

This bill seems like a gimmick. It seems they just want more money to do what you could already do or at least most of it. I thought you could already carry your gun or guns in any manner you wanted. I could be wrong though...

Edited March 8, 2019 by lock n' load

[mikegideon]

I don't know. You have the crowd than thinks folks need a little "training" to carry a gun in public. Then you have the folks that have a hard time affording the current HCP. I think they are really trying to cover that gap.. I haven't paid enough attention to know if they're on the right track..

I like what they did in Ky, even though my family members are all keeping their permits so they can travel. Same with me. I will always keep the permit that allows me to carry in the most places.

Before the permits came along, I carried when I thought I had to for my safety. I like the law and all that, but ain't gonna die for a stupid one.

Edited March 8, 2019 by mikegideon

[GlockSpock]

If they were to lump schools and/or signage into the group, you'd see a rush of a lot of people looking to upgrade, qualify, etc.

[300winmag]

I don't see this bill or any other bill in the legislature creating a true enhanced carry permit like the one Mississippi has that legalizes carry on school property and other 'gun free' areas.  If this is the best carry bill the NRA is getting behind in the TN legislature this year, that is not good because it really does not improve anything carry restriction wise.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

50 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

If they were to lump schools and/or signage into the group, you'd see a rush of a lot of people looking to upgrade, qualify, etc.

Amen. Make it a TRULY enhanced permit and make it so that it overrides signage , etc and they will have to hire extra people to process all the applications....

[joe4vol]

Will the current permit be the “enhanced” permit and have a lower tier permit or will there be a new permit to take more of our money?

[GlockSpock]

Shall I assume this is it?

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1264&GA=111

Summary:

This bill renames the handgun carry permit that is available under present law as the "enhanced handgun carry permit" and creates a new "concealed handgun carry permit". The significant differences between an enhanced handgun carry permit and a concealed handgun carry permit are as follows:

(1) An enhanced handgun carry permit does not specify the manner in which a handgun must be carried. A concealed handgun carry permit will only authorize the holder to carry in a concealed manner;
(2) An applicant for an enhanced handgun carry permit must submit fingerprints, which are used by the TBI and FBI for criminal history background checks. An applicant for a concealed handgun carry permit will only be required to undergo a name-based criminal history record check;
(3) An applicant for an enhanced handgun carry permit must present a photo identification. An applicant for a concealed handgun carry permit may present either a photo identification or other proof satisfactory to the department of safety showing the person's identity and residency;
(4) An enhanced handgun carry permit must be issued on a wallet-sized laminated card and include, among other things, a color photograph of the permit holder. A concealed handgun carry permit may be issued as a letter to the applicant and may be issued without the applicant's photograph;
(5) Subject to certain exceptions for persons who obtain firearm training through the military, a police academy, or armed guard instruction courses, an applicant for an enhanced handgun carry permit must submit proof of the successful completion of a department approved handgun safety course within one year of the date of application. Instead of completing a department approved handgun safety course, an applicant for a concealed handgun carry permit will be required to demonstrate competence with a handgun, which may be accomplished by various forms of experience, including, but not limited to, completion of a hunter safety course, completion of a firearm safety course using instructors certified by the NRA or department of safety, military service, prior issuance of a carry permit, law enforcement or security training, or any other firearm training that the department of safety deems adequate;
(6) The application fee for an enhanced handgun carry permit is $100. There will not be an application fee for a concealed handgun carry permit;
(7) An enhanced handgun carry permit is valid for eight years. A concealed handgun carry permit will be valid for five years;
(8) An enhanced handgun carry permit holder who is within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway, or other similar public place is generally exempt from the present law prohibition against carrying weapons on any property owned, operated, or while in use by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. Such exemption will not apply to concealed handgun carry permit holders; and
(9) A local government may not prohibit an enhanced handgun carry permit holder from possessing a handgun on public property unless the local government provides a security system consisting of metal detectors and inspection by trained personnel for such property. A local government will not be required to provide metal detectors and security inspections in order to prohibit concealed handgun carry permit holders from possessing firearms on public property.

So...if I'm interpreting this correctly:

Concealed Handgun Carry Permit

• Free
• Must be concealed
• No fingerprints, only standard background check

Enhanced Handgun Carry Permit

• Open or concealed
• $100 Application
• Overrides/nullifies laws against carrying schools, colleges, parks, etc (listed above in bold)

Interesting. Removes a financial burden for many, but theoretically expands places the "enhanced" can carry. It's a step (positive) in my opinion, but creating two different "classes" of constitutional rights is...confusing at best and discriminatory at worst. I'd be supportive of this law as it'd benefit me.

[chances R]

Spock, I think you are reading too much into the school exemptions.  There is no modification to standing law.  One will not be permitted to carry on a campus.  If one is carrying in a public park and an official school function is in progress, then you still will not be able to carry unless that specific TCA is modified, which this bill does not do.  Still, IMO, this is a terrible bill that is trying to be a substitute for Constitutional Carry.  We should have CC, and the current permit should be expanded to remove some restrictions that are still a burden.

[Wingshooter]

Seems like it’s just muddying the waters to me. I’m generally not really in favor of laws that make things more complex and harder to understand. So $100 and fingerprints gives someone access to open carry and state parks above the privileges of the new concealed carry permit?

Since I would keep the “EHCP”, there’s essentually no change... right?

Edited March 8, 2019 by Wingshooter

[Cruel Hand Luke]

REMOVE the penalty for carrying past signage !

Signs protect NO ONE.  And an otherwise law abiding person should not be able to be prosecuted for committing the "crime" of refusing to be helpless. 

[Wingshooter]

4 minutes ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

REMOVE the penalty for carrying past signage !

Signs protect NO ONE.  And an otherwise law abiding person should not be able to be prosecuted for committing the "crime" of refusing to be helpless. 

Exactly!

Make it more simple not more complex.

 

[chances R]

This is a smoke and mirrors bill.  Call your representatives and ask for opposition.  

[btq96r]

3 hours ago, GlockSpock said:

...confusing at best and discriminatory at worst.

Sounds like the perfect nuance for law enforcement to have to balance when dealing with the gun carrying public.

[mikegideon]

3 hours ago, joe4vol said:

Will the current permit be the “enhanced” permit and have a lower tier permit or will there be a new permit to take more of our money?

That's how I understood it.

[300winmag]

The bill changed the name of the current handgun carry permit to an enhanced handgun carry permit BUT does not add any enhancements to it as in less off limits locations such as school property and the no gun sign weapons crime.

The bill then adds a concealed only permit that requires less training.  You still have to get a background check and fingerprinting, but hunter's education or a web based gun safety class could be sufficient training for this new permit.  The new permit will be offered by the state at a reduced cost.

I personally do not see the point in the NRA or any pro gun group spending the time on this bill if there are not going to be reduced gun free areas, such as school property, for the current handgun carry permit = enhanced carry permit that requires live fire training. 

Is it really that difficult for the NRA to get behind a decent pro gun bill in TN so that people with permits can legally carry in more places?  Every state bordering TN has legalized college carry except North Carolina.  In some of those states it is also legal to carry in K-12 schools.  

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by 300winmag

[walthermitty]

I hope you guys are members of TFA.

[mikegideon]

31 minutes ago, walthermitty said:

I hope you guys are members of TFA.

Yep, and Facebook friends with the chief RINO slapper  

[Oh Shoot]

The last time the legislature tweaked the permit process a couple of years ago, we lost reciprocity in two states, MN and WA.

Hence, I'm always leery of anything regarding the process anymore.

- OS

[mikegideon]

5 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

The last time the legislature tweaked the permit process a couple of years ago, we lost reciprocity in two states, MN and WA.

Hence, I'm always leery of anything regarding the process anymore.

- OS

I'm looking at the KY folks that have a permit that's easier than TN, with probably a little less reciprocity acceptance. With constitutional carry now, there's some argument for tightening the Deadly Weapons permit. They probably never will.

[GlockSpock]

@Oh Shoot

What is your interpretation of (8) that I posted above regarding "Enhanced" and schools, etc?

[Oh Shoot]

5 hours ago, GlockSpock said:

@Oh Shoot

What is your interpretation of (8) that I posted above regarding "Enhanced" and schools, etc?

Who knows? What does "generally" exempt mean?

It's a fix to a problem that to my knowledge hasn't arisen though.  Not once.  Existing law makes us "generally exempt" already IMNSHO.

- OS

[lock n' load]

From reading the proposed law, it seems that those of us who already have a HCP that includes a photo I.D. and have paid the initial and/or renewal fees (especially lifetime permits) that we would be considered "enhanced" permit holders and would be grandfathered into that class???

[chances R]

LNL- yes, but is a change in name only.  Some are being duped into thinking ‘enhanced ‘ is something better.  This whole thing is a charade to pacify the constitutional carry promise move....unsuccessfully I might add.

[docachna]

So under the bill in its present form, would Open Carry thus be prohibited for a holder of a Concealed Handgun Permit ?

 

If so, I foresee a bunch of "printing" arrests being done by any LEO who don't agree with the whole 2A concept. And they're out there. I had a conversation with a THP trooper once that absolutely curled my hair, he was so opposed to "civilians" being armed in any way, shape or form. They may or may not be few and far between, but they certainly do exist.