Steve Dickerson (R-Nashville) to Introduce Red Flag Bill

[DaveTN]

On 3/28/2019 at 11:43 AM, Cruel Hand Luke said:

If you don't have any penalty for false reporting then this will simply be used as harassment of legal gun owners.

Implement a $100 fee for filing the report that is refunded to the filer if the person is found to be a danger but a $1,000 penalty (or even better DOUBLE the accused person's legal fees) and a month in jail to the filer if the person is found to NOT be a danger. That will most likely limit false reporting. 

If there is no penalty for false filing then why not go ahead and file on the people who vote for the law right off the bat? If there is no penalty for it you might as well go ahead and show them what the rest of us will live in fear of having happen when someone looks to settle a grudge by doing this and saying you are a "danger"..... If THEY have to deal with the horrible unintended consequences of the law then they might realize that it is not a good law. 

Take a look at the ludicrous stuff that the Colorado "Red Flag" law allows and you'll see why IF this is going to happen it needs to be CAREFULLY crafted and require more than just a word from someone who "knows you" saying you are a danger and need your gun confiscated. 

I agree with you that there has to be consequences for false reporting. But there already are. Filing a false Police report in many places is a felony. I don’t know if it is in Tennessee or not. The problem is that any law like that requires intent.

Charging people that make the call won’t fly, our system of getting people to report crimes or potential crimes isn’t set-up that way; and shouldn’t be. A law saying a court simply deciding that the person isn’t a danger and then charging the reporting party would never hold up in court on appeal.

False reporting with intent is most likely going to come from family members in a divorce or domestic violence situation. I have responded to those type situations and the cop on the street isn’t going to make a call that there is no danger. (Our discretion was taken away in the 80’s.) In this day and age they are either going to make an arrest or start mental health commitment proceedings. I had zero tolerance for those threatening violence, with or without a weapon. They went to jail. If it’s a wife or family member making a false claims; that’s a situation that was created over time by willing participants. I couldn’t fix their problems they created in the short time I was there.

Adults need to handle their own family problems. If they can’t and the Police are called; the Police will likely handle it for them. Cops aren’t social workers or ministers. They are law enforcement Officers and except in the most obvious mental health cases the likely outcome will be jail. Then if you have the money you can get attorneys and mental health professionals involved. Remember… you will get exactly as much justice as you can afford.

Luke, keep in mind here that I am not saying I support any of these specific bills. And I was not a cop in this state and don’t have first hand knowledge of how these calls are handled here. I am saying that those that see this as a violation of 2nd amendment rights or due process; need to do their research. I doubt very much that you have due process now.

[bersaguy]

He may not be representing the 22nd disrict much longer since he was connected to CPS.

State Sen. Steve Dickerson is an anesthesiologist and Medical Director for Comprehensive Pain Specialists (CPS), which is under fire for its abrupt closing of dozens of pain clinics across eight states last month. This week, news broke that CPS is under investigation by federal authorities.

 

[Chucktshoes]

10 hours ago, bersaguy said:

He may not be representing the 22nd disrict much longer since he was connected to CPS.

State Sen. Steve Dickerson is an anesthesiologist and Medical Director for Comprehensive Pain Specialists (CPS), which is under fire for its abrupt closing of dozens of pain clinics across eight states last month. This week, news broke that CPS is under investigation by federal authorities.

 

You’re on point there. Prosecutors have notified the courts that they are adding him, and others, to the lawsuit. 

 

https://newsok.com/article/feed/9906302/feds-intend-to-sue-tennessee-lawmaker-over-pain-clinics

[DaveTN]

None of us would get by with what they are accused of without criminal charges being filed.

[bersaguy]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

None of us would get by with what they are accused of without criminal charges being filed.

As far as I'm concerned he is no better than any other drug dealer/pusher and should be treated as such with no special treatment. Criminal charges should be applied to him as well.

[DaveTN]

I’ve said for 40 years; if you want to stop illegals drugs, you don’t start at the bottom and work your way up; you start at the top and work your way down. It is harder work and requires Officers that fear nothing;

I do not believe for one second that the majority of deaths are overdoses from legal prescription drugs. But if they acknowledge where they are coming from; they would have to do something about it.

No one wants to do the hard work. Just like these Red Flag laws. When someone threatens someone with violence; put them in prison.  But of course that requires everyone to properly do their job, and would require much larger prisons.

[DaveTN]

No Red Flag laws were needed here; the laws were already in place. It appears to me the cops did their jobs, but the DA let this Tennessee community down and 7 people are dead with one more in critical condition.

You gotta have people willing to put in the work and send these violent criminals to prison.

It also appears to me from the news coverage that 7 dead and one wounded is not as important to the media as one dead, if that one dead is a suspected hate crime. I can assure you this mass killing in Sumner County was a hate crime.

https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/7-dead-1-critical-in-westmoreland-suspect-shot-by-police-in-custody/1959766316

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by DaveTN

[bersaguy]

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

No Red Flag laws were needed here; the laws were already in place. It appears to me the cops did their jobs, but the DA let this Tennessee community down and 7 people are dead with one more in critical condition.

You gotta have people willing to put in the work and send these violent criminals to prison.

It also appears to me from the news coverage that 7 dead and one wounded is not as important to the media as one dead, if that one dead is a suspected hate crime. I can assure you this mass killing in Sumner County was a hate crime.

https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/7-dead-1-critical-in-westmoreland-suspect-shot-by-police-in-custody/1959766316

 

If the DA would have done his job this person would not have been on the streets in the first place. He would have been in prison under a repeat offender sentencing. To allow a person like this back out of jail this many times is directly a problem for the DA. He should have been serving about 25+ years...........JMHO

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

If the DA would have done his job this person would not have been on the streets in the first place. He would have been in prison under a repeat offender sentencing. To allow a person like this back out of jail this many times is directly a problem for the DA. He should have been serving about 25+ years...........JMHO

Sure, but he’s about to become the poster child for inaction in Tennessee. Judging from the number of arrests I would guess first responders did their job.

I would also make the guess that based on his previous record he was barred from firearm possession and could not pass a background check. So no red flag laws or laws other than those already in place would have been required to stop him. Apparently people were calling for help, but the system did not work for them. Some folks paid for that with their life. I would not be surprised if it was the same family members that asked for help before.

[bersaguy]

18 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Sure, but he’s about to become the poster child for inaction in Tennessee. Judging from the number of arrests I would guess first responders did their job.

I would also make the guess that based on his previous record he was barred from firearm possession and could not pass a background check. So no red flag laws or laws other than those already in place would have been required to stop him. Apparently people were calling for help, but the system did not work for them. Some folks paid for that with their life. I would not be surprised if it was the same family members that asked for help before.

I have seen several interviews with authorities and they ahve yet to announce the weapon he used to kill all the people. They did say that he pulled a couple weapons and that was when the Swat Officer shot him. That would lead me to believe he pulled guns but it could have been knives or an axe or any number of weapons. They did announce in the beginning when they were searching for him that he was armed and dangerous but they didn't say armed with what. I mean it does not take a lot of imagination to know it was a gun of a couple guns but they have not announced it last I heard..............

[Garufa]

Looks like all the Sumner Co. victims were beat to death.

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/sumner/2019/04/30/sumner-county-killings-cause-of-death-medical-examiner-blunt-force-trauma-michael-cummins/3632305002/

[bersaguy]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

Looks like all the Sumner Co. victims were beat to death.

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/sumner/2019/04/30/sumner-county-killings-cause-of-death-medical-examiner-blunt-force-trauma-michael-cummins/3632305002/

yep, That appears to be the way they died. That had to be a very savage attack by a derranged person. It is a shame that the officer that shot him only hit him in the leg and not the head. They said the officer shot him after he produced a weapon. Must have been a knife since they said a sharp object possibly a knife was also used in the killings. He will probably be declared mentally disturbed and get locked in a mental ward some where. Until he is dead that means someday this guy could be back on the streets again.........JMHO