What Does TN Allow?

[ChanceMcCall]

Different states have limitations on what someone with a concealed carry permit is allowed to carry. In Illinois, my wife's civilian permit, does not cover anything but handguns. She is not entitled to carry "less lethal" choices legally.  Using the same permit in KY, she can carry a switchblade, a blackjack, a sap, and even brass knuckles, as well as a "stun gun" in addition to one or more handguns.

What does TN allow, and are there any specifics regarding training on the weapon or weapons carried? Are there any gray areas? How do they treat retired LEOSA? (NYC requires LEOSA carriers to have proof of purchase on their person of any firearms they are carrying. Not have POP is a felony.)

Edited November 16, 2018 by ChanceMcCall

[RED333]

In TN if over 21 we can carry just about any bladed weapon, even a sword. Other than a pistol I am not sure. OS will chime in here soon.

[volshayes]

See (9) below for possessing and carrying a baton.

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.

(a)  It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(1)  Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;

(2)  By a person authorized to possess or carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351;

(3)  At the person's:

(A)  Place of residence;

(B)  Place of business; or

(C)  Premises;

(4)  Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;

(5)  By a person possessing a rifle or shotgun while engaged in the lawful protection of livestock from predatory animals;

(6)  By a Tennessee valley authority officer who holds a valid commission from the commissioner of safety pursuant to this part while the officer is in the performance of the officer's official duties;

(7)  By a state, county or municipal judge or any federal judge or any federal or county magistrate;

(8)  By a person possessing a club or baton who holds a valid state security guard/officer registration card as a private security guard/officer, issued by the commissioner, and who also has certification that the officer has had training in the use of club or baton that is valid and issued by a person certified to give training in the use of clubs or batons;

(9)  By any person possessing a club or baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club or baton for self-defense that is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs or batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws;

(10)  By any out-of-state, full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer who holds a valid commission card from the appropriate out-of-state law enforcement agency and a photo identification; provided, that if no valid commission card and photo identification are retained, then it shall be unlawful for that officer to carry firearms in this state and this section shall not apply. The defense provided by this subdivision (a)(10) shall only be applicable if the state where the out-of-state officer is employed has entered into a reciprocity agreement with this state that allows a full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer in Tennessee to lawfully carry or possess a weapon in the other state; or

(11)  By a person authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 36-3-626 or § 39-17-1365.

(b)  The defenses described in this section are not available to persons described in § 39-17-1307(b)(1).

[DaveTN]

Tennessee did away with their knife restrictions. In Illinois you can carry an auto knife if you have a FOID. However, they allow locals to ban it. (Chicago) Of course once you move here your FOID is no good in Illinois.

Tennessee allowed an HCP holder to have a loaded rifle in their car as long as a round wasn’t in the chamber. I haven’t looked to see what the status of that is now that you can have a gun in your car without a permit.

I haven’t heard of anyone specifically having any problems with LEOSA. Here are the state requirements.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/commerce/documents/post/forms/Fillable_LEOSA_initial_packet.pdf

You will find that there are very few issues carrying in TN for most people. Like anywhere the issue is usually how the gun became an issue. Tennessee makes no distinction between open and concealed carry. But like anywhere if someone calls the cops on you they are going to stop you and check you out.

Most of the discussion/drama surrounds carrying past a sign on posted property. We haven’t had anyone (that I know of) post here that they have been charged with that. It’s a fine only offense, ($500) but I guess there is a possibility of losing or getting your HCP suspended. I don’t open carry so I don’t worry much about it. A Murfreesboro cop told me they usually give a trespass warning when called, and then deal with it if it happens again.

Tennessee doesn’t require you to inform an Officer on a traffic stop if you are armed. If I remember right you said you are a former cop; so that might impact your opinion on that. The pavement gets pretty dang hot in Tennessee during the summer. 

[dralarms]

Dave, I thought they removed the restrictions on having one in the chamber on a rifle. Am I mistaken?

[DaveTN]

26 minutes ago, dralarms said:

Dave, I thought they removed the restrictions on having one in the chamber on a rifle. Am I mistaken?

Correct. It appears that 39-17-1307 (e) (1) does not differentiate between a handgun and a long gun.

I had to go look. 

[dralarms]

Good to know. 

[Oh Shoot]

13 hours ago, RED333 said:

In TN if over 21 we can carry just about any bladed weapon, even a sword. Other than a pistol I am not sure. OS will chime in here soon.

As Dave mentioned, there are essentially no knife laws left in TN, for general possession and nothing about age,  and that is by state exemption, meaning local jurisdictions cannot enact any.

The only place I know that "knife" is even mentioned is in regard to committing a crime with a switchblade, which is a separate charge. So always use a Bowie or something to stick up that 7-11.

Edit; and of course on school property.

- OS

Edited November 16, 2018 by Oh Shoot

[xsubsailor]

 This might answer your questions:

https://hobanco.com/blogs/news/tennessee-tn-knife-laws

[RED333]

4 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

So always use a Bowie or something to stick up that 7-11.

Good advice!!!

[Jamie Jackson]

On 11/16/2018 at 1:11 AM, volshayes said:

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.

 

On 11/16/2018 at 1:11 AM, volshayes said:

(9)  By any person possessing a club or baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club or baton for self-defense that is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs or batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws;

I am not LEO nor do I pretend to be so. I like a climate controlled work environment and the illusion of control over my day to day life.

Working in an ER, I assure you it's an illusion...

Several years ago (2006 as I just checked), operating under this condition in TN law, we hosted a Manadnock class using a local LEO trainer for certification.

I've carried a variety of impact tools since (actually I carried them long before, but back in MS &LA). I keep a copy of the law, laminated, in my wallet...the issue has never arisen in any case.

I take that you are a former, or current, LEO @ChanceMcCall . Therefore I assume you've been credentialed in impact tool use and application. You should be good to go.

I have certs in OC/ Chemical agents (DTI and others) and carry OC, but the certs aren't required (to the best of my knowledge) in TN.

Knives? again GTG. Knives are as ubiquitous as friggin' cell phones...almost 

 

Great advice and info in this thread by knowledgeable folks already.

Welcome to TGO.

Jamie 

[ChanceMcCall]

I habitually carry a switchblade but not for defense - it is a Buck 500 conversion. My wife would like to carry a switchblade just to avoid breaking her nails.

My main interest would be my blackjack and my brass knuckles. 

[Garufa]

25 minutes ago, ChanceMcCall said:

My main interest would be my blackjack and my brass knuckles. 

You can carry any kind of blade you want, a handgun on your person (with a permit), or any kind of gun in your car, but those types of dirty weapons are a no go.

[ChanceMcCall]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:50 AM, DaveTN said:

Tennessee did away with their knife restrictions. In Illinois you can carry an auto knife if you have a FOID. However, they allow locals to ban it. (Chicago) Of course once you move here your FOID is no good in Illinois.

Tennessee allowed an HCP holder to have a loaded rifle in their car as long as a round wasn’t in the chamber. I haven’t looked to see what the status of that is now that you can have a gun in your car without a permit.

I haven’t heard of anyone specifically having any problems with LEOSA. Here are the state requirements.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/commerce/documents/post/forms/Fillable_LEOSA_initial_packet.pdf

You will find that there are very few issues carrying in TN for most people. Like anywhere the issue is usually how the gun became an issue. Tennessee makes no distinction between open and concealed carry. But like anywhere if someone calls the cops on you they are going to stop you and check you out.

Most of the discussion/drama surrounds carrying past a sign on posted property. We haven’t had anyone (that I know of) post here that they have been charged with that. It’s a fine only offense, ($500) but I guess there is a possibility of losing or getting your HCP suspended. I don’t open carry so I don’t worry much about it. A Murfreesboro cop told me they usually give a trespass warning when called, and then deal with it if it happens again.

Tennessee doesn’t require you to inform an Officer on a traffic stop if you are armed. If I remember right you said you are a former cop; so that might impact your opinion on that. The pavement gets pretty dang hot in Tennessee during the summer. 

The retired badge is right across from the driver's license. 

[ChanceMcCall]

9 minutes ago, Garufa said:

You can carry any kind of blade you want, a handgun on your person (with a permit), or any kind of gun in your car, but those types of dirty weapons are a no go.

The "dirty weapons" ended a lot of situations without having to shoot anyone. I guess I'm just very old school.

It is interesting that Illinois does not allow these for their civilian carriers, but is silent for retired LEOSA. Some current are not allowed because of their departmental regs. On the other hand, my wife on her Illinois permit can carry both in Kentucky. 

[Spiffy]

It always amazes me that I can carry a handgun on my person and a rifle in the truck but I can't carry what amounts to a stick.

[RED333]

2 minutes ago, Spiffy said:

It always amazes me that I can carry a handgun on my person and a rifle in the truck but I can't carry what amounts to a stick.

I have been thinking of a cane for walking myself.

[xsubsailor]

Here's a nice cane (just for walking) 

[Wingshooter]

A sizable and hefty tire iron rides in my truck. Hey, I have big tires

There’s also a jack and a lug wrench. It’s legit

 

[Chucktshoes]

3 hours ago, Spiffy said:

It always amazes me that I can carry a handgun on my person and a rifle in the truck but I can't carry what amounts to a stick.

You can, as long as you take the proper class for it. 

Silly that you need a class, but the avenue for it is there if you want it. 

[peejman]

Why go to a class to carry a stick when you can carry a sword?

[Ronald_55]

10 hours ago, xsubsailor said:

Here's a nice cane (just for walking) 

I have a cane with a brass horse head. Little less obvious. I always wanted to make one from the Mac Truck bulldog hood ornament

[Alleycat72]

Even my 15 year old daughter carries a switchblade. She's not getting taken without a fight. 

[Cruel Hand Luke]

10 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

You can, as long as you take the proper class for it. 

Silly that you need a class, but the avenue for it is there if you want it. 

The issue is that it is viewed as lethal force. The reason it is viewed as "less lethal" for cops is because they ostensibly have training in its use and are using it to subdue not to kill . If you hit someone in the head with a blackjack (or a sap or a baton to a lesser degree) you run a pretty fair chance of giving them a depressed skull fracture. There is a reason that very few police departments allow the use of saps and blackjacks anymore. The certification class teaches you to target areas that are less likely to cause permanent crippling injury or death.

Police can use any means necessary to effect an arrest. Civilians cannot. If you refuse to comply with the officer's commands he can MAKE you comply with empty hands , taser , pepper spray, baton or even a firearm. A civilian can only use lethal force in response to lethal force. Due to his job description he does not operate under the same rules a civilian does. For the police officer the baton is just another level up from pepper spray in the use of force continuum....for a civilian it is viewed as aggravated assault unless he is responding to lethal force. A cop can hit you with a baton for punching him....a civilian is going to have a whole lot of explaining to do as to why he hit someone with a stick (aggravated assault) for punching him . I'm not saying it cannot be articulated , I'm saying it will probably have to be articulated and the answer is not just "Because he hit me"......

We can make the argument that for the average civilian going about their business the baton really serves no purpose.  Police use it to subdue and take into custody individuals who do not want to be subdued and taken into custody. Civilians out in the street are not really supposed to be doing that..... And as such for a civilian , the club (sap, jack, baton) is viewed not a physical compliance tool to effect an arrest but as a lethal force tool. And if you are legally justified to use the baton you are justified to shoot them. Nobody seems to like to hear that but that is the reality of it. 

 

Full disclosure... I actually attended that same Monadnock certification class with Prag back in 2006 and have carried (and maybe used?) a baton when working security in the entertainment business back in the day. I also own about a dozen saps and jacks (Boston Leather, D3 Protection, Foster Brothers) and occasionally carry them. But the curse of being a big strong still fairly young dude is that the court system is going to view my use of a blackjack differently than Prag's use of it. In all honesty if I am justified to use the sap or jack I'm justified in using the pistol. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Chucktshoes]

That’s all excellent information @Cruel Hand Luke. I especially agree with the part that for the average person there is no legitimate cause to carry a baton. (Though I actually do keep one for use as a tire thumper in my Pete simply because it fits the door pocket just about perfectly.) I imagine that for most folks who don’t have some sort of (real or perceived) work reason to carry one, the class introduces a healthy dose of “why bother” into the mix. That alone I would imagine makes the class worthwhile. 

All that aside, I still think requiring a class to carry one is a problem because I think all prior restraint by the government on the population is a problem. If folks are going to carry impact weapons, they should get training on them just as anyone who carries a gun should get training because it’s the prudent thing to do. Doesn’t mean I think the government should have any input on the matter.