DOJ rules that bump stocks ARE machineguns

[OLDNEWBIE]

1 hour ago, Oh Shoot said:

"It" is a whimsical ruling, not a law. But to be enforced as if it were an actual passed law.

Now Florida did actually pass a no-bump-stock law, promoted by that staunch 2A governor, Rick Scott. Who will now be a staunch 2A supporting Senator, where as such he can do a lot more damage in the future.

- OS

 

So it's more the method used to rid the world of bump stocks than the actual loss of bump stocks that has everyone in a lather?

Either way these devices were doomed from the start in IMO. Too close to full auto which was taken away long ago.

The line has been drawn in the sand with Semi-auto and unless you live in a Prog State, that includes a pistol grip, full capacity mags and other features too. As well as the right to keep them at the ready outside of a range! 

Trump or his advisers know this. They know his base. He might talk stupid but he wants to win and knows how to win. He will defend that line in the sand better than any Democrat looking to be President right now.

So don't fault Trump with trying to appease a some of his low information supporters on the fringe of his base if they don't want what seems like  "machine guns" to them on the streets. He needs every vote. Hillary won't be running against him next time. The Dems will not allow it!

Look at the big picture.

Besides, were bump stocks really practical anyway??

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oh Shoot]

15 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

....

Besides, were bump stocks really practical anyway??

So our firearm freedoms are based on "practicality"?

Hell, even when a law is passed, ie the NFA of 1934,  it means nothing if ATF is allowed to simply change it via a completely bogus "interpretation".

- OS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

3 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

So our firearm freedoms are based on "practicality"?

Hell, even when a law is passed, ie the NFA of 1934,  it means nothing if ATF is allowed to simply change it via a completely bogus "interpretation".

- OS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I knew that one was coming when I added it.

Of course not. Read the whole post.

 

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

 

Besides, were bump stocks really practical anyway??

 

Actually, yes. It took a sick SOB to find a practical use for them. The moment he did, they were doomed.

[Capbyrd]

11 hours ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

That's what they are doing. They finally got around to telling us that the bump stock, (in their opinion), turns a semi-auto into a machine gun and it's not going to be allowed because full auto is no longer allowed. No real law change just a catch up on things availiable now.

 

You seem to be operating under the impression that the ATF never ruled on these.   Long before they went on sale, the ATF sent a letter to SlideFire saying that they were okay and not a violation of federal law.  Sell them all you want.  

Someone used one for something bad, and then its a reversal.  They didn't finally get around to giving their opinion.  They changed their opinion.  


And yet, none of that matters.  You are probably the same guy that thinks 1986 was a win for gun owners and that Reagan is the beacon of freedom.  

[DaveTN]

23 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

You seem to be operating under the impression that the ATF never ruled on these.   Long before they went on sale, the ATF sent a letter to SlideFire saying that they were okay and not a violation of federal law.  Sell them all you want.  

Someone used one for something bad, and then its a reversal.  They didn't finally get around to giving their opinion.  They changed their opinion.  

And yet, none of that matters.  You are probably the same guy that thinks 1986 was a win for gun owners and that Reagan is the beacon of freedom.  

Well that’s what you get when you allow a Federal Agency to decide what’s legal and what’s not. They decided they made a mistake and changed it.

The legislature should decide what’s legal and what’s not; not the ATF. The ATF are idiots. If you think the reason for outlawing machine guns was because they could fire more than one round with each trigger pull; the ATF opinion makes sense. If you think the reason for outlawing machine guns was because of their rate of fire; the ATF opinion makes absolutely no sense.

For the record I believe machine guns should be legal, and I believe the 2nd amendment gives us the right to own them. However, the government does not agree with me and I know that unless I meet all their requirements to own one; I will go to prison.

 

No one respects the ATF…. No one. But let some idiot occupying a chair in an ATF office somewhere issue a letter some gun owner agrees with and all of a sudden they are the legit shot callers. It’s ridiculous.

[OLDNEWBIE]

6 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

 

You seem to be operating under the impression that the ATF never ruled on these.   Long before they went on sale, the ATF sent a letter to SlideFire saying that they were okay and not a violation of federal law.  Sell them all you want.  

Someone used one for something bad, and then its a reversal.  They didn't finally get around to giving their opinion.  They changed their opinion.  


And yet, none of that matters.  You are probably the same guy that thinks 1986 was a win for gun owners and that Reagan is the beacon of freedom.  

I have no problem with what the media is calling assault rifles in civilian hands.

I have owned a mini14 in CA in 82.

I have a few things now that you are insinuating I think should be outlawed. 

I left the west coast to escape the gun grabbers. Wrote lots of letters to my Representatives  and tried to vote them out year after year.

I think the ATF is ridiculous on most things. They owe bump stock manufacturers money IMO but...

You seem to be irritated with me because I don't think it's a huge stretch for the general public to think a bump stock =machine gun.

The general public is against machine guns in civilian hands I'm guessing.

So basically I'm not surprised bump stocks are verboten now.

Not agreeing just not surprised. 

Reagan was a mixed bag. 

So is Trump.

The other side not so mixed on 2ndA issues.

I know, I was surrounded by them and they are unified on anti-gun issues.

 

 

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

BTW, 

I wish I never sold that mini.

It was the A team wood folding stock stainless version.

Worth a bit more than I paid for it or sold it for I imagine now.

[DaveTN]

47 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

I don't think it's a huge stretch for the general public to think a bump stock =machine gun.

The general public is against machine guns in civilian hands I'm guessing.

So basically I'm not surprised bump stocks are verboten now.

Not agreeing just not surprised. 

I'm guessing you are correct. When the videos were being played there were plenty of experienced gun owners (some here if I remember correctly) calling that automatic weapon fire. The general public won’t care that those high rates were obtained by a device someone at the ATF deemed “legal”.  It shouldn’t surprise anyone at all.

[MP5_Rizzo]

2 hours ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

The general public is against machine guns in civilian hands I'm guessing.

The general public's knowledge of machine guns is gained from what they've seen on TV or from Hollywood.  They've been conditioned to believe all machine guns run endlessly on a 30 round magazine. Same as the general populous knowledge of suppressor / silencers, they think all of them are quiet as James Bonds suppressed Walther.

[bersaguy]

30 minutes ago, MP5_Rizzo said:

The general public's knowledge of machine guns is gained from what they've seen on TV or from Hollywood.  They've been conditioned to believe all machine guns run endlessly on a 30 round magazine. Same as the general populous knowledge of suppressor / silencers, they think all of them are quiet as James Bonds suppressed Walther.

Hollywood plays a big roll in favor of the anti-gun people when it comes to dumming down the low knowledge general public about guns. They see something on TV and they think the average gun owner has 10 of them in their bedroom closet. They don't have a clue that Tommy Guns have been outlawed since 1934 to civilians. They have no clue the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 ended all civilians being able to purchase full auto's of any type. Only in Hollywood folks!!!!      I think I am right on this. If not please correct me.!!!!!

[MP5_Rizzo]

49 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

They have no clue the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 ended all civilians being able to purchase full auto's of any type.

The FOPA of 1986 stopped ownership of machine guns made after May 15,1986 from being transferable to the qualifying citizens. Machine guns made prior to May 15,1986 are still legally transferable.

[Mike.357]

22 hours ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Besides, were bump stocks really practical anyway??

were they practical anyway?  If you spent your money on it you'd think differently

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Seems like a buyback is in order.

What the heck did those cost anyway? I know some people were stocking up in anticipation after Vegas.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

It states that there will be a cost for loss of property.

I assume that's a buyback but who knows.

[Omega]

15 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Seems like a buyback is in order.

What the heck did those cost anyway? I know some people were stocking up in anticipation after Vegas.

 

I don't think there will be a buyback, but if there were, I'd think it would be based on original purchase price, not the inflated priced some paid when they hit the spotlight, and I'd be ok with that.

[MacGyver]

There won’t be a buyback. 

They’ll give a date by which they’re to be turned in or destroyed, after which possession will be prosecuted as a felony. 

Compliance will likely be similar to Connecticut’s ban on assault weapons. Maybe a little higher - but still low double digits.  

I’d expect the feds will gather as many sales records as they can. They’ve likely already issued document preservation orders. Many of the companies - who are looking to avoid liability or who find themselves in receivership after bankruptcy will willingly comply.

There are certainly paths to persue legal remedies to all of the above, but it’ll take deep pockets.  And, since the NRA has already abandoned this issue, you’d risk financial ruin fighting it.  

Pay attention. This won’t be the last you see of this.  

[Ronald_55]

All they have to do to avoid lots of costs if a buyback does occur is require origional proof of purchase. 2nd hand owners will not have it and the origional owner will no longer have the stock to turn in. Heck lots of 1st hand owners may not have a receipt anymore. Plus the receipt will let them make sure they target every business that sold them.

I agree that a buyback is not likely though.

[Capbyrd]

We already have a case that was similar.  Akins Accelerators.   Granted, he didn't sell nearly as many, but its a similar story and a similar device.  

I would bet that the ATF would order existing stocks to be modified two ways.  

1.  The stock has a knob that you can use to make it just a fixed stock.  I would bet that they require that to be riveted to make it a fixed stock only.  
2.  cut off the portion that covers one side of the trigger guard.  

 

From the way that they have handled past cases, this makes the most sense.  And rather than worrying about going after people, it will be a tacked on charge or a bigger charge after a crime is committed.  

 

But a buyback is definitely out of the question.  

[m16ty]

On 11/19/2018 at 11:25 PM, mikegideon said:

Actually, yes. It took a sick SOB to find a practical use for them. The moment he did, they were doomed.

Yea, the guy was a idiot to use a bump stock. I mean, if you are going all out to compete a mass murder, why don't you just get a DIAS, or drill the hole and call it a day?

I don't like the fire bump stocks are taking more than any of you, but the reality of it is, they felt like they had to throw the public a bone. There is quite a bit of support in the country for a all out AWB, much more restrictive than last time. Right or wrong, Trump thought he had to give them the bump stock to protect our other rights. Agree or disagree, I understand the reasoning. 

Some around here like to throw out that how Obama was better for the 2nd than Trump. The only thing that kept Obama in check during his second term what the republican legislature. Given the chance, does anybody actually think Obama wouldn't have taken your guns away? 

[mikegideon]

35 minutes ago, m16ty said:

Given the chance, does anybody actually think Obama wouldn't have taken your guns away? 

In a New York minute. 

[MacGyver]

6 hours ago, m16ty said:

Some around here like to throw out that how Obama was better for the 2nd than Trump. The only thing that kept Obama in check during his second term what the republican legislature. Given the chance, does anybody actually think Obama wouldn't have taken your guns away? 

If you want to be technically correct about post-Newtown gun legislation, the truest reason it didn’t come to pass was that Harry Reid wouldn’t let it come to a floor vote in the Senate.  He wanted to give cover to red state Democrats by not forcing a vote.  

Times have changed so much in these last few years - but once upon a time Harry Reid, the Democratic Senate Majority Leader was A-rated by the NRA.  

Now, the GOP certainly played a role.  They held the House, and would’ve made it difficult to pass anything restrictive. But, the Democrats in the Senate were the ones who really put a stop to it. 

[m16ty]

If they are going to do something with the bump stocks, the best thing all around is to make them class 3 and handle them like machine guns. Those that have them, have so long to register them, after that they will have to be transferred on a form 4. The general public will think they are banned, the people that have them will get to keep them and still be able to sell them, and the government won’t have to fork out a lot of money for buyback.

[Johnny Rotten]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:15 PM, m16ty said:

If they are going to do something with the bump stocks, the best thing all around is to make them class 3 and handle them like machine guns. Those that have them, have so long to register them, after that they will have to be transferred on a form 4. The general public will think they are banned, the people that have them will get to keep them and still be able to sell them, and the government won’t have to fork out a lot of money for buyback.

That would make the BS a postie and not a transferable.

[Capbyrd]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

That would make the BS a postie and not a transferable.

In order to make it happen, they would have to have an amnesty period.  Technically, they would be post 86 but registered during an amnesty making them trannies.  

Doesn't matter, it is not going to happen.