OK your opinion how dumb are some of the HCP instructors?

[Guest Rando]

The class I took was run by two Police officers that were the firearms instructors for there department ( one has since died from a long battle with cancer RIP ) I have a friend that took a class from a dude ( dont know his qualifications ) and one of his requirements was each student had to hold there firearm to his head( the instructor) and pull the trigger to get an idea of what it was like to shoot someone as he put it. Dude wouldnt do it said it went against everything he had ever been taught, of course the guy told him he would fail if he didnt so he told him he was dropping from the class and made him refund his money. What would you have done? I say my young friend was correct and he has since taken the class again and now has his permit. What do these people have to do to be qualified to do these courses? I remember back when I first got mine, I was sitting in the DMV and listening to others talk about there classes and what they were told I didnt like it and was afraid of what my family might be in the middle of out there but thankfully I have yet to hear of any bad things happening with a HCP holder.

What is your 10 cents on the subject?

[Guest Astra900]

[memphismason]

That was a hell of a crazy story.

I know what I would have done.

[John Wall]

I performed Independent Contractor work for a trainer who did this. Some folks think they are bulletproof.

The Darwin award may soon be appropriate for this yahoo.

I prefer to be behind the line when firearms are handled and dry (or otherwise) fired.

[BigPoppa]

IMO, your buddy did absolutely the right thing.

As for the title question of your thread........for now, all I will say is this:

There is a WIDE disparity in the quality of training available for the Tennessee HCP course.

[Guest shadow12]

I like to think that Phantom and I teach a good class and that people leave our class with some more knowledge than what they arrived with. We have had "guest" instructors who taught for us, some taught ONCE. We are picky about our instructors, and your story would definitely get an instructor out of our class.

Unfortunately there are people that should not be teaching, but if you can get instructor creds, you can teach in this state, no monitoring leaves it wide open for frauds.

[Guest Jcochran88]

That is just plain STUPID! Who in there right mind lets someone put a gun to their head loaded or unloaded and has them pull the trigger. IMO this guy should be stripped of his teaching abilities. Is this really who we want teaching a class to responsible gun owners. I am all for the 2nd ammendments but sounds like the state needs some more stringent guidelines for who they let become instructors. Just saying you wouldn't see that happening at an NRA class!

[Warbird]

Not only does it go against the grain of everything people should be taught about gun safety. But the instructors whole point was a fallacious one. Holding a gun you know to be unloaded in a classroom is in no way similar to what it is like to knowingly hold a loaded gun at someone's head who is threatening your own life and having to pull the trigger. It's an absurd demonstration.

I agree this is one person who should be run out of the business and not be allowed to ever teach anyone else again. There's no telling what other small misinformation he may have been teaching as well that this young man didn't know about. He did the right thing, as he wanted to learn something obviously and not just get the certificate. Kudos to him.

Edited January 30, 2009 by Warbird

[Guest superdrew4000]

My father taught me never to point ANY firearm, loaded or not, at anything I wasn't prepared to destroy. End of story.

[Guest jackdog]

that is just the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

[TGO David]

Your friend should have said "OK" and then put his firearm against the instructor's head and pulled the trigger.

[dunndw]

I like to think Len and I teach a safe, fun and informational class.

I've seen plenty of stupid. When I took the def. carbine class from CIS, one of the better known instructors in the area, always on TV was in the bay next to us. He had the entire class dry firing their pistols at him, so he could see if they were bobbing the gun with the trigger press. Probably about 30 or so people, all at once. I don't know why one of his students hadn't put a round in him yet.

I had never wished for a 9mm blank so hard in all my life.

[Guest JLowe]

Do you get bonus points if you actually shoot him? Thats absolutely the most retarded thing I've heard of since the "action wheel".

[BigPoppa]

Do you get bonus points if you actually shoot him? Thats absolutely the most retarded thing I've heard of since the "action wheel".

"Action wheel" ?

School me please.

[The Average Joe]

Your buddy did ABSOLUTELY the right thing.

The first thing out of any firearms instructor's mouth should be to "always treat any gun as a loaded gun".

If told to put a gun to anyone's head or I'd fail a class, I'd have quit, asked for my money back, and retorted in so many colorful metaphors it would have spun the instructor's head around.

Said instructor must have been a power monger or just f**king crazy.

Bottom line....instructor was a douche bag.

+1:up: to your buddy for quiting the class.

Now, he should report the instructor and have his certification revoked.

Edited January 30, 2009 by The Average Joe

[Oh Shoot]

...and one of his requirements was each student had to hold there firearm to his head( the instructor) and pull the trigger to get an idea of what it was like to shoot someone as he put it. ...

Agree with most everyone else, this is unbelievable, actually qualifies as insane.

- OS

[Guest canynracer]

Your friend should have said "OK" and then put his firearm against the instructor's head and pulled the trigger.

Great minds think alike.

[Guest Grout]

Buford Tune has his students do it.I saw it on an old episode of American Shooter.

[Guest nraforlife]

Stupid......

[bukowski548]

one of the better known instructors in the area, always on TV was in the bay next to us. He had the entire class dry firing their pistols at him, so he could see if they were bobbing the gun with the trigger press. Probably about 30 or so people, all at once. I don't know why one of his students hadn't put a round in him yet.

I know exactly who you are talking about. He was in my first pistol class taught by Louis Awerbuck. He told Awerbuck he was starting his own training center and wanted to learn the "right way" to go about it. He truly sucked all through out the 3 day class. I see him at his booth at the gun show about a month later with the EXACT syllabus of classes that Awerbuck offered, didn't even bother to change the wording or type it up seperately. He covered the Yavapai Fireams Academy logo with his and did photo copies.

Everytime he shows up on the news a "firearms expert" I just want to toss my cookies.

buk

[The Average Joe]

Ahem....sometimes all you need is a visual to explain it all.

Edited January 31, 2009 by The Average Joe
First pic removed for language content. Sorry.

[Guest Mugster]

The class I took was run by two Police officers that were the firearms instructors for there department ( one has since died from a long battle with cancer RIP ) I have a friend that took a class from a dude ( dont know his qualifications ) and one of his requirements was each student had to hold there firearm to his head( the instructor) and pull the trigger to get an idea of what it was like to shoot someone as he put it. Dude wouldnt do it said it went against everything he had ever been taught, of course the guy told him he would fail if he didnt so he told him he was dropping from the class and made him refund his money. What would you have done? I say my young friend was correct and he has since taken the class again and now has his permit. What do these people have to do to be qualified to do these courses? I remember back when I first got mine, I was sitting in the DMV and listening to others talk about there classes and what they were told I didnt like it and was afraid of what my family might be in the middle of out there but thankfully I have yet to hear of any bad things happening with a HCP holder.

What is your 10 cents on the subject?

Most of the "professional firearms" instructors are idiots, hcp or otherwise. News like this reinforces my general opinion. There's some good guys out there, no question, trying to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. They are few and far between from what I've seen.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I like to think Len and I teach a safe, fun and informational class.

Based on your gunhandling in the two Defensive Series classes, I have no doubt of this.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Most of the "professional firearms" instructors are idiots, hcp or otherwise. News like this reinforces my general opinion. There's some good guys out there, no question, trying to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. They are few and far between from what I've seen.

You may be right.

From what I've seen, I'd say that we have a pretty good collection here, though.

[Guest jackdog]

luckily I have never took a class from these type of guys. I have investigated taking classes with other instructors, one of which was Buford Tune. I have Yet to take any extra classes, the folks I talked to either left me with the impression that they were not going to greatly improve on what I was doing. or it was gonna be a lot of money better invested in ammo. Please do not take this as a slight to any instructors on the forum.