California bar shooting leaves 12 dead

[DaveTN]

Shooting in a bar. They say he used one handgun reloaded once. Shooter is dead.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/massive-police-response-after-reports-of-shooting-at-california-nightclub

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by DaveTN

[Omega]

Just a nutjob?, Vote didn't go his way?,  Homegrown terrorist?  Who knows but even though he used a handgun, it will be the ARs that will suffer the upcoming weapons laws. 

[mikegideon]

Marine. Glock 21 with extended mag. He obviously violated the magazine law. He is in BIG trouble.

[bersaguy]

Prayers going out to all of the people at the nightclub and their families involved and a prayer to the family of the LEO Sergent for his dedication to put his life on the line knowing the bad guy was still shooting when he went in. 

[DaveTN]

Sheriff just held a press conference. (He retires at midnight tonight) Shooter purchased the Glock 21 legally. Apparently shooter had interaction with cops in April. There were questions about his mental state, but apparently it was decided there wasn’t enough to put a mental hold on him.

They are saying he used an “Extended Magazine” but that may have just been the standard 13 round mag. I think CA has a 10 round limit.

[bersaguy]

5 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Sheriff just held a press conference. (He retires at midnight tonight) Shooter purchased the Glock 21 legally. Apparently shooter had interaction with cops in April. There were questions about his mental state, but apparently it was decided there wasn’t enough to put a mental hold on him.

They are saying he used an “Extended Magazine” but that may have just been the standard 13 round mag. I think CA has a 10 round limit.

10 rounds 13 rounds 20 round magazines makes almost zero difference in the hands of an average trained person. I have practiced reloading many times and with my Bersa's I can swap magazines in average 5 seconds and be back on target. Any one with practice can have 10 round mags and if he has 5 of them he has 50 rounds of ammo to work with and a pause total of 25 seconds total in 5 second intervals. I have never understood the Magazine laws to begin with as they are useless to begin with. Criminals are going to ignore them to begin with...........JMHO

[Erik88]

The news is reporting there were 6 off duty officers at the bar, either unarmed or not in a position to help. That's though. I understand the desire to not always be armed so one can go out and have fun but I'm betting they are regretting that decision this morning. I certainly go out a fair amount and my wife and I take turns being the DD. 

It's also being reported some of the survivors were also present at the Last Vegas massacre. Those people probably cannot believe their luck (or lack of).

Edited November 8, 2018 by Erik88

[OLDNEWBIE]

3 minutes response time. Ridiculously fast. The LEO who died was a real life hero.

As good as it gets in these cases but unfortunately 3 minutes is too slow when seconds count.

May God comfort those families who are grieving today.

[DaveTN]

23 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

3 minutes response time. Ridiculously fast. The LEO who died was a real life hero.

As good as it gets in these cases but unfortunately 3 minutes is too slow when seconds count.

May God comfort those families who are grieving today.

Exactly. The amount of time it takes for the second shooter to arrive impacts the body count. In this case the Police probably saved a lot of lives. But not fast enough for many others. They obviously pulled the fire from the crowd to them.

Laws don’t work. Unfortunately I don’t think we are far from businesses having a designated lethal force person on the premises, separate from any other security. A well-known law firm is suing the businesses in the Jacksonville, FL gaming shooting. It will be interesting to see what happens there.

[DWARREN123]

People are the problem not firearms, cars or alcohol!

Prayers for all especially the officer KIA.

[AuEagle]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/after-california-shooting-democrats-promise-to-tackle-gun-violence-in-congress

[DaveTN]

3 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/after-california-shooting-democrats-promise-to-tackle-gun-violence-in-congress

Quote

House Democrats promised to address gun violence in the U.S., especially now that they've gained a majority in the chamber after the midterm elections.

Either I or “House Democrats” don’t fully understand how this whole legislation thing coupled with math works.

[Garufa]

1 minute ago, DaveTN said:

Either I or “House Democrats” don’t fully understand how this whole legislation thing coupled with math works.

While there is not much they can get passed, it will be interesting, frightening perhaps, to see the bills they throw up against the wall.  It will also show what is going to happen when they get total control of Congress and the Presidency.

[DaveTN]

8 minutes ago, Garufa said:

While there is not much they can get passed, it will be interesting, frightening perhaps, to see the bills they throw up against the wall.  It will also show what is going to happen when they get total control of Congress and the Presidency.

Oh no doubt. I suspect that nothing will get done. I don’t see them passing anything Trump agrees with; no matter what it is. I don’t see how they will even get a budget through. Things are different than they were before.

[OLDNEWBIE]

Been working, driving around and catching radio updates of this.

He apparently was a Marine before 2013.

May or may not be relevant if ptsd issues were diagnosed but....

In the majority of cases a bad guy does bad stuff why does the news zero in on military service almost right away?

I'm sure he has had some other jobs since 2013!

If an ex shoe salesman who has been a Realtor for 6 or 7 years shot up a nightclub the news would call him a Realtor. They wouldn't go through his resume years back.

Unless he was in the Military!

Just an observation, maybe I'm perceiving it wrong.

 

 

[Oh Shoot]

12 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

....

If an ex shoe salesman who has been a Realtor for 6 or 7 years shot up a nightclub the news would call him a Realtor. They wouldn't go through his resume years back.

Military one of the few professions trained to use guns, so it's always relevant in that sense I guess. If he were merely a carry permit holder, that gets played up in similar vein.   Plus, both are supposed to be the good gun guys, so always a bitter irony there too.

- OS

Edited November 8, 2018 by Oh Shoot

[Erik88]

21 minutes ago, Garufa said:

While there is not much they can get passed, it will be interesting, frightening perhaps, to see the bills they throw up against the wall.  It will also show what is going to happen when they get total control of Congress and the Presidency.

Didn't they have control after Sandy Hook? If they can't pass it after 30 1st graders were killed I'm doubtful they will at all. Trump has also stacked the SC to help us if it was ever challenged. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Watching MSM briefly this morning.

Host said to guest expert. " it apparently was just a handgun, imagine how bad it would have been if it was an AR assault rifle?"

These people are clueless!

Close quarters chaotic nightclub.....

an AR would not be the most efficient to do evil mass murder IMO.

I don't think it would have been worse with an AR.

[gregintenn]

17 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Been working, driving around and catching radio updates of this.

He apparently was a Marine before 2013.

May or may not be relevant if ptsd issues were diagnosed but....

In the majority of cases a bad guy does bad stuff why does the news zero in on military service almost right away?

I'm sure he has had some other jobs since 2013!

If an ex shoe salesman who has been a Realtor for 6 or 7 years shot up a nightclub the news would call him a Realtor. They wouldn't go through his resume years back.

Unless he was in the Military!

Just an observation, maybe I'm perceiving it wrong.

 

 

No, you are correct. Guns=bad. Military=bad. Middle aged white guy=bad. This is the media's checklist. This guy hit the trifecta.

Edited November 8, 2018 by gregintenn

[OLDNEWBIE]

4 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

Military one of the few professions trained to use guns, so it's always relevant in that sense I guess. If he were merely a carry permit holder, that gets played up in similar vein.   Plus, both are supposed to be the good gun guys, so always a bitter irony there too.

- OS

I can see that I guess, would be nice if they started with his current profession and worked back though.

There's a damned good chance that might be more relevent.

[cajunpredfan]

2 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Didn't they have control after Sandy Hook? If they can't pass it after 30 1st graders were killed I'm doubtful they will at all. Trump has also stacked the SC to help us if it was ever challenged. 

nope, Sandy Hook occurred in 2012, the house was taken in 2010 by the republicans.  The republicans gained seats in the senate but the dems where still in control.  So yes, if they had all three, there would be a price to pay.

[OLDNEWBIE]

Just now, gregintenn said:

No, you are correct. Guns=bad. Military=bad. Middle aged white guy=bad. This is the media's checklist. This guy hit the trifecta.

I think in the news profession that's good, good, good not bad,bad,bad.

[Erik88]

1 minute ago, cajunpredfan said:

nope, Sandy Hook occurred in 2012, the house was taken in 2010 by the republicans.  The republicans gained seats in the senate but the dems where still in control.  So yes, if they had all three, there would be a price to pay.

Thanks for correcting my mistake there. I was under the impression they had control. I remember it was voted on, and failed. I still think if something serious were to pass it would be struck down by the supreme court. 

[DaveTN]

19 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

In the majority of cases a bad guy does bad stuff why does the news zero in on military service almost right away?

They need someone or something to blame other than the shooter; because he is dead. Military, LEO or HCP holder allows them to tie the cause to guns or PTSD. 

[cajunpredfan]

2 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Thanks for correcting my mistake there. I was under the impression they had control. I remember it was voted on, and failed. I still think if something serious were to pass it would be struck down by the supreme court. 

I think what you would see is the 94 assault weapons ban on steroids.   The supreme court would do nothing unless it were challenged.  In 2016  the supreme court rejected challenges to assault weapon bans in Connecticut and New York.  That's not a good track record to hang your hat on.