Non-Firearm Training Recommendations

[Guest Hyaloid]

Specifically, does anyone her ehave any recommendations on Martial Arts based training (especially in the Tricities area).

I couldn't care less about belts and stuff. Not that I am eschewing traditional styles, but I want practical unarmed defensive training. Any suggestions?

My reasoning is that I don't want my firearm to be my ONLY choice, especially if for some reason that choice is taken away from me or impractical to use in a given scenario.

[saintsfanbrian]

Hyaloid - that is a good idea. Many of the YMCA's have karate or taekwondo training offered at "reduced" prices.

I am planning on taking taekwondo soon myself, once I break the chains of this job that has me on the road an hour out of everyday.

[bteague2]

I've taken some Judo before, it is the sport version of ju-jitsu. I enjoyed it because it is a sport and you can go full out against each other and not have to worry hurting your sparring partner but at the same time it is still a martial art and can be used in self defense.

If your thinking about general training not just for defensive purposes, I'd take a first aid course.

[Marswolf]

How serious are you about this? There is a guy in Blountville that is probably the best in the area. He doesn't go for all this dippy bowing crap and all that most schools do. I like that a lot.

Some years ago I heard about him and heard that he claimed to do Special Forces training sessions. Not believing it, I made a couple of phone calls and found out that it was true. He is very good.

I have never trained with him, but have great respect for his ability and philosophy of teaching. I do have to mention that along the line he went pretty deep into his religion. Normally, that is not a plus in my book but in his case I'll make an exception.

Here are a couple of links. I have no idea what the Myspace thingy is about, since David Collins is a lot older than 35, but it's an interesting read. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=131696363

The other link is about his religion, but also gives some good information about his martial arts background. http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/125.htm

I ran into him about a month ago at a local produce stand. He is a nice guy, very competent and I'd recommend him.

[Guest Phantom6]

My reasoning is that I don't want my firearm to be my ONLY choice, especially if for some reason that choice is taken away from me or impractical to use in a given scenario.

Good thinking. I tell my students in my carry permit classes and most especially in my Personal Protection classes that in case of a problem, if the only tool you have is a hammer then you better hope that every problem looks like a nail otherwise you may very well get screwed. A good example of this would be in a situation where the BG gets the drop on you. In close quarters going for a disarm (provided this is something you have trained on) would be far preferable to trying to draw your firearm and shoot him.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Thanks for the replies!

I think I probably have the first aid thing covered

I like the sounds of the fella you mentioned Marswolf. I am not too sure about the religion angle, I'll have to think about it. I do like the whole, no bowing get to work style of teaching. No BS.

Ju-Jitsu sounds like something I'd like... I have to do some asking around.

[Guest dotsun]

Ju jitsu is an extremely useful skill. If you've ever watched any of the first UFC's it was shown to be the dominant fighting art by the Gracie family. Of course, now everyone in MMA has added that skill set to their repertoire and has once again balanced the field so to speak.

The upside to ground combat is it's devastating effects on untrained fighters. Anyone can get a lucky punch in on their feet, very little luck remains once they're on their back. Having said that, one must still have a very solid stand up game. I say this for a couple of reasons. First, the advantage of ground combat is very quickly nullified by the addition of an extra attacker. Secondly, it's much more difficult to disengage from combat once you're on the ground.

Keep in mind that this is my opinion and worth every penny you payed for it.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Ju jitsu is an extremely useful skill. If you've ever watched any of the first UFC's it was shown to be the dominant fighting art by the Gracie family. Of course, now everyone in MMA has added that skill set to their repertoire and has once again balanced the field so to speak.

The upside to ground combat is it's devastating effects on untrained fighters. Anyone can get a lucky punch in on their feet, very little luck remains once they're on their back. Having said that, one must still have a very solid stand up game. I say this for a couple of reasons. First, the advantage of ground combat is very quickly nullified by the addition of an extra attacker. Secondly, it's much more difficult to disengage from combat once you're on the ground.

Keep in mind that this is my opinion and worth every penny you payed for it.

Good advice... next time I'll pay you double!

[jgrauman]

TKD is good for balance and muscle discipline, but honestly not very effective in a real world situation. i would also recommend BJJ for ground tactics. it's useful no matter the size of the attacker. i took TKD through green belt and it was great excersize and amazing to watch the guys and gals who had taken it for many years, they were awesome, but the skills i learned in the 6 months of classes (and a lot of money spent) i just couldn't see myself being comfortable enough using in a mugging type situation. again, the black belts in the class were unbelievable, they had so much control and were so fast, but that takes years of discipline and practice to achieve. you're more than likely not going to be squarring up with a would be attacker, more than likely if you can't use your gun, you're going to be going to the ground:2cents:

[Cruel Hand Luke]

It really depends on what you want to accomplish. If you want a class you can go to every week and use as a "fitness" class too, then something there local is probably going to be what you seek.

If you want a more "progressive" class that combines awareness, avoidance, managing unknown contacts, hand to hand, in fight weapon access, and shooting in the 0-5 foot range,weapon retention and disarms, then "Southnarc's" Extreme Close Quarters Concepts is the class you seek. It will change the way you think. It is that good.

You can see his material at Shivworks.com . His schedule is not updated on the website yet, but should be soon. He is doing a class in Atlanta at the end of June. If you are interested I can get the dates and locations. It is a 20 hour class -4 hrs Fri night, 8 Sat and 8 Sun. Again it will change the way you view the world and especially unknown persons who approach you.

The schedule so far for 07 follows below

22-24 June

IEK/ECQC-1/ECQC-2 in Atlanta, GA

Point of contact: Ken Forbus www.FIREARMZ.net

6-8 July

Comprehensive Edged Weapons Weekend (In-Extremis, Reverse and Conventional Methods) in Tulsa, OK.

Point of Contact: Mike Brown mike@thepraesidiumgroup.com

27-29 July

PUC-1/Short Elbow Clinic/Intro to the Modified Take-off/Working from the Clinch in a Multiples Environment in Chester, United Kingdom

Point of contact: Ian Thomas ian@horindojo.co.uk

24-26 August

PUC-1/ECQC-1/ECQC-2 in Kansas City, Kansas

Point of contact: Robert McLeod (913) 557-9963 info@dvctraining.com

14-16 September

ECQC-1/ECQC-2 full three day format in Pelham, NH.

Point of contact: James Conway, jim@neshooters.com

28-30 September

IEK/ECQC-1/ECQC-2 in Simpsonville, SC

Point of contact: Mike Adams, glockaroo@hotmail.com

5-7 October

IEK/ECQC-1/ECQC-2 in Syracuse, NY

Point of contact: Chris Fry, chrisf@centrexlabs.com

2-4 November

IEK/ECQC-1/ECQC-2 in Portland, OR.

Point of Contact: Rich Daniel trainerguy@qwest.net

[Guest Tommy Ferguson Jr.]

Oh boy...

How can someone have over 40 yrs. of experience at the age of 35?

I don't really want a hard cardio workout set to music.

Any of the styles listed can take years to be able to teach effectively.

I don't know this guy, never met him, but I'd watch a few classes to make sure it's what you want.

What's wrong with bowing?

[Marswolf]

Oh boy...

How can someone have over 40 yrs. of experience at the age of 35?

I don't really want a hard cardio workout set to music.

Any of the styles listed can take years to be able to teach effectively.

I don't know this guy, never met him, but I'd watch a few classes to make sure it's what you want.

What's wrong with bowing?

I've always thought the bowing thing was dippy too. No need for it. The military doesn't bow to each other after hand-to-hand practice. Why do it as civilians?

I don't understand the 35 year old thing either. He's a Vietnam SF vet and as mentioned he still teaches classes to SF.

I know enough about him from talking to others who have worked with him to know he's the real deal. His focus is on practical techniques, but the has extensive classical training too.

[Guest Tommy Ferguson Jr.]

http://www.extremeselfprotection.com

[Marswolf]

Look like interesting guys.

Anything that gives you some confidence, and ability, to handle a close-up situation is good. Sometimes it can end a fight without using a gun. Sometimes it gives you time to get to a gun, especially if someone is in your face.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Yeah, guys that think they don't need any hand to hand skills because they carry a gun could be in for a BIG surprise. You can't just shoot people who are unarmed that get up in your face (barring disparity of force issues of course).So what do you do? You can't shoot someone for punching you in the nose.......

And even if it is legally justified , drawing a gun against someone who is within an arm's length, or heaven forbid , physically in contact with you, is a good way to end up in a wrestling match over your pistol. Need hand to hand skills there? uh yeah......

Guns are not the solution to every problem and interjecting a gun into the equation at an INAPPROPRIATE time creates BIGGER problems.Awareness, Avoidance, Deescalation/Verbal skills, Empty hand skills, THEN equipment is what generally prevents things from getting really ugly.

[Guest jtm129]

Anyone aware of good edged weapon training in Knoxville area? Specifically our use of knives as defensive tool (offense/defense mix)?

[Guest Phantom6]

Anyone aware of good edged weapon training in Knoxville area? Specifically our use of knives as defensive tool (offense/defense mix)?

We're not certified yet but working on it for a commercial contract our training school is working on. As soon as we have it we plan to offer it here in the local area. Send me a PM with your contact info (name & email) is good and I'll add you to the list. In case I screw up which is certainly within the realm of possibility, watch this Training Forum for details in the near future.

[Guest Shooting Coach]

Nashville has Levi Montgomery. This guy is the real deal. The last thing in the world you want to do is make him have to defend himself against you. Check out his website.

http://www.basetac.com/Levi.htm

[Marswolf]

Nashville has Levi Montgomery. This guy is the real deal.

He may be, but his website is full of gobbledygook and self promotion, with a good dash of theatricality.

If I talk to Bill Bass again, I'll try to remember to ask about Montgomery.

[Guest Shooting Coach]

Dear Marswolf

I know what you are saying. Most sites really do not help the trainer. One says "Metro Nashville Police Department, 30 years (Retired)". That would have made him 17 when he was given that job! Another says "former USAF Combat Arms Instructor and Security Police Officer". Right. The number of "former SWAT and Special Forces" Instructors out here exceed the number of those ever IN those positions.

There are some good folks out here, but many of them commit "suicide by website". LOL

[Guest bkelm18]

Anyone ever try Krav Maga? I've been looking into it. I need something to get back into shape.

[Marswolf]

A lot of sites for trainers hurt them. They come off looking like bloviaters. They think they are selling their skills, but instead they just end up looking pompous.