Tennessee ordered to stop license suspensions for indigence

[volshayes]

https://privateofficernews.org/tennessee-ordered-to-stop-license-suspensions-for-indigence/

Tennessee ordered to stop license suspensions for indigence

October 18, 2018

 

 

NASHVILLE, Tenn October 18 2018 A federal judge in Nashville has ordered the state to stop suspending the drivers licenses of people who are unable to pay traffic fines and court costs.

In an order Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Aleta Trauger also instructed the state to allow indigent drivers to get suspended licenses back without fees.

The lawsuit is the second of two similar cases. The earlier one dealt with people who lost licenses because they were unable to pay fines related to criminal convictions. Trauger ruled against the state in July, and Tennessee appealed.

Plaintiffs argue the suspensions leave people unable to work, making it even harder for them to pay court debts.

The rulings potentially affect tens of thousands of Tennesseans and could have implications for similar policies in dozens of other states.

AP

[Omega]

I get what they are trying to do, but there needs to be limits on how many infractions a person can have.  I watch Live PD, and though I'm sure they only show the "exciting" things, there are a bunch of people that have multiple like offenses, suspended licences, no insurance, dui, etc and of course they get stopped and they are drunk or have drugs on them. Do we really want people with no insurance on the roads? 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Omega
Speeling

[RED333]

I am torn on this as well, but play the game and win the big prize. Sad but the get out of jail free card is next.

[Grand Torino]

There need to be limits and consequences for continual repeat offenders or else they may as well quite citing people in the first place. For some reason it reminds me of giving trophies for participation rather than winning.

[DaveTN]

Years ago in Illinois they wouldn’t suspended your license as long as you kept making your court dates. If you couldn’t pay, they would give you another court date, usually every 30 days. Most of those would usually get paid or turn into a failure to appear.

I wonder if this will apply to drivers whose license is suspended because they don’t have insurance and can’t pay for an accident. I also wonder if they will apply this to those who have their license suspended because they can’t pay child support.

Take no responsibility for anything; that’s where we are headed… and it won’t be good for the law abiding and those that take responsibility for their actions.

[RED333]

36 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Take no responsibility for anything; that’s where we are headed… and it won’t be good for the law abiding and those that take responsibility for their actions

This is happing now with insurance now, the very reason insurance is so high now!

[E4 No More]

7 hours ago, Omega said:

I get what they are trying to do, but there needs to be limits on how many infractions a person can have.  I watch Live PD, and though I'm sure they only show the "exciting" things, there are a bunch of people that have multiple like offenses, suspended licences, no insurance, dui, etc and of course they get stopped and ghey are drunk or have drugs on them. Do we really want people with no insurance on the roads? 

We already have them. They're called Illegal Aliens and poor people.

[DaveTN]

6 minutes ago, SWJewellTN said:

We already have them. They're called Illegal Aliens and poor people.

Well if the liberals ever get to be in charge; we will be paying for their auto insurance as well as their health insurance.

[E4 No More]

4 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Well if the liberals ever get to be in charge; we will be paying for their auto insurance as well as their health insurance.

True that!

[tercel89]

It says that these suspended licenses "leave people unable to work aming it harder for them to pay court debts" WTF !!!!!! That's bull crap ! There are a gazillion people driving all over the place with suspended and revoked DL's . The fact that they are suspended or revoked never stops them. They just don't pay the fines and now it seems they may be able to get away with it without getting cited or going to booking ! Criminals always seem to win.

[bersaguy]

Nothing better than a free ride compliments of the courts. If they are saying they can't get to work if they can't drive, means they do have a job so they should be able to pay their fines to keep their driving priviledges. The courts will accept small payments as long as anyone is trying. The dead beat dads that don't pay Child supports should be given limited driving priviledeges allowing them to drive back and forth to work until they get their back child support paid up and it should be taken out of their check before they get paid.

The damn courts are just about telling these people they can break th law and it's ok to not pay or accept any responsibility for their actions. It's things like this that cause me to carry Un-insured Motorists on my Jeep Insurance. If I get hit by one of these people my insurance company has to fisx or replace my Jeep and then they can sue the person that hit me.

[MacGyver]

If you’re serious about ending homelessness and systemic poverty, then this is a good step in the right direction.  

Better yet, we’d quit piling on fines over stuff that wouldn’t be a crime if you weren’t homeless anyway, thereby perpetuating the cycle. I can’t count the people I’ve met in the last decade who are working - but what’s keeping them from being housed is court costs and fines that simply keep growing.  That’s not hyperbole.  It’s literally multiple dozens of people. 

In Nashville, you pretty much have to have a car to work.  That’s clearly not an absolute. But, our hub and spike transit system makes getting pretty much anywhere a multi-hour endeavor if you’re not lucky enough to have your destination on the same line.

I get being “tough on crime” and all that.  But, the system isn’t going to fix itself.  People in poverty aren’t going to pull themselves up by their bootstraps - at least at any scale. 

[bersaguy]

7 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

If you’re serious about ending homelessness and systemic poverty, then this is a good step in the right direction.  

Better yet, we’d quit piling on fines over stuff that wouldn’t be a crime if you weren’t homeless anyway, thereby perpetuating the cycle. I can’t count the people I’ve met in the last decade who are working - but what’s keeping them from being housed is court costs and fines that simply keep growing.  That’s not hyperbole.  It’s literally multiple dozens of people. 

In Nashville, you pretty much have to have a car to work.  That’s clearly not an absolute. But, our hub and spike transit system makes getting pretty much anywhere a multi-hour endeavor if you’re not lucky enough to have your destination on the same line.

I get being “tough on crime” and all that.  But, the system isn’t going to fix itself.  People in poverty aren’t going to pull themselves up by their bootstraps - at least at any scale. 

My SIL's boss implemented a program at his company the beginning of this month and so far it is working. He has 4 homeless men on his payroll that Tommy hired that could pass a drug test but had transportation issues. Tommy worked it out with a couple of their other employees that do drive to job sites to work. They made arrangements with the guys that drive to pick up the homeless workers on their way to work and they will buy that emloyee a tank of gas a week. So far it has worked well and Tommy picks up one of them on the way in with his company truck. If this program works out they plan on hiring any homeless people that can pass a drug tests and stay clean on the random tests.

These guys did work through a Temporary Service but they had to get to the Temp Service office as best they could. This way they get picked up were they live and dropped back off at where they live. They decided to do this beacuse they couldn't get enough help other wise.

[bersaguy]

The Temporary Service was not to happy with what he began doing and they told him that they will not be sending him any more workers if he is going to hire them and by pass the Temp Service he was using. He told them that was fine.

He told all of the Temps he hired to see if they knew any others that were clean and could stay clean that he needed to hire at least 5 more people so he will see where that goes.

[OLDNEWBIE]

Go for it but put a lean on future wages if they start making over a certain amount. That way they can work themselves out of the hole they are in by driving to work and pay the fines eventually. Put resrictions on the DL like daylight only or certain hours they work.

Also there has to be a limit on how many tickets and violations. Something reasonable like a few minor violations every year. No DUI

Remember "Cool Hand Luke" Failure to communicate speech.

"Some Men you just can't reach" 

 

The article didn't give any details, sounded like a free ride.

 

 

[Grayfox54]

I'd be in favor of a restricted license. Back and forth to work only until all fines are paid. If caught driving anywhere else, jail time. 

[Dirtshooter]

We do pay for their insurance.  For quite awhile I have wondered why we have to pay for uninsured motorists on our insurance. If everyone is required to have insurance, they why do we pay for uninsured motorists??? Very similar to people getting multiple DUI's, sorry but I don't feel sorry for anyone that puts my family in danger because they decide to drive under the influence!!

[MacGyver]

15 minutes ago, Dirtshooter said:

We do pay for their insurance.  For quite awhile I have wondered why we have to pay for uninsured motorists on our insurance. If everyone is required to have insurance, they why do we pay for uninsured motorists??? Very similar to people getting multiple DUI's, sorry but I don't feel sorry for anyone that puts my family in danger because they decide to drive under the influence!!

Uninsured motorist insurance doesn't pay for someone else's insurance.  It pays for repairs on *your* vehicle if someone who doesn't have insurance hits you.  

 

[Dirtshooter]

My bad, we indirectly pay their insurance. If they had insurance, I wouldn't have to pay for uninsured motorist.

[Grayfox54]

Uninsured motorist insurance is needed because of all the illegals, druggies and drunks in this country. Many don't have a driver's license, no insurance, phony tags and the car isn't even registered in their name. Yet they have cars and drive anyway. 

One of my sons sold his old junker car to a mexican. A few months later, he got a letter from the Police dept saying that his car was in their impound and he needed to come get it and pay a huge storage fee. We did some checking and found out that the guy who bought the car never transferred the registration.  When he had a wreck, he just bailed and hauled ass. The police had gotten my son's name when they ran the VIN number. We explained all this to the police and they said it was quite common. My son could have gotten the car back since it was still registered in his name, but didn't bother because it was wrecked and the fees were more than it was worth. 

BTW: there's a big black market among illegals for a valid license plate. They steal them off wrecks in junk yards and body shops and sell them to other illegals who need a valid plate for their unregistered vehicles. Never sell a vehicle with a valid plate still on it. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Grayfox54

[Omega]

1 hour ago, Grayfox54 said:

Uninsured motorist insurance is needed because of all the illegals, druggies and drunks in this country. Many don't have a driver's license, no insurance, phony tags and the car isn't even registered in their name. Yet they have cars and drive anyway. 

One of my sons sold his old junker car to a mexican. A few months later, he got a letter from the Police dept saying that his car was in their impound and he needed to come get it and pay a huge storage fee. We did some checking and found out that the guy who bought the car never transferred the registration.  When he had a wreck, he just bailed and hauled ass. The police had gotten my son's name when they ran the VIN number. We explained all this to the police and they said it was quite common. My son could have gotten the car back since it was still registered in his name, but didn't bother because it was wrecked and the fees were more than it was worth. 

BTW: there's a big black market among illegals for a valid license plate. They steal them off wrecks in junk yards and body shops and sell them to other illegals who need a valid plate for their unregistered vehicles. Never sell a vehicle with a valid plate still on it. 

That happens even among those that should have the means to be legal.  my son had a hit and run, turned out the girl had purchased a vehicle, never transferred the registration and had no insurance.  My son tracked her down via facebook, got all her info, name addresses (2), and parents names.  Even after telling CPD all this, all that happened is the mom paid our insurance.  No charges for the crash, no charges for attempting to run my son over, or for any of the registration insurance issues.

[Murgatroy]

On 10/19/2018 at 1:09 PM, MacGyver said:

If you’re serious about ending homelessness and systemic poverty, then this is a good step in the right direction.  

Better yet, we’d quit piling on fines over stuff that wouldn’t be a crime if you weren’t homeless anyway, thereby perpetuating the cycle. I can’t count the people I’ve met in the last decade who are working - but what’s keeping them from being housed is court costs and fines that simply keep growing.  That’s not hyperbole.  It’s literally multiple dozens of people. 

In Nashville, you pretty much have to have a car to work.  That’s clearly not an absolute. But, our hub and spike transit system makes getting pretty much anywhere a multi-hour endeavor if you’re not lucky enough to have your destination on the same line.

I get being “tough on crime” and all that.  But, the system isn’t going to fix itself.  People in poverty aren’t going to pull themselves up by their bootstraps - at least at any scale. 

I know a guy that lost his license and 19. He paid what he could, and always settled his debts, but through the bureaucracy and steep costs was always unable to get his license back. Between hoops to jump though and paying his regular bills it seemed be never had the $1000, $2000, $3000, $4000 to pay the fines/reinstatement costs that continually accrued. Though he continued to drive to work, every time he would be caught for a minor infraction (a tail light, a headlight, failure to come to a complete stop) it would add thousands of dollars and another time constraint to what it took to reinstate his license. He became a family man, no legal issues, but one mistake, during a time where the state of Tennessee didn't have insurance requirements (determined at fault due to other party having insurance regardless of cause of accident) he lost his license. Total costs over the course of ten years involved multiple trips to jail and tens of thousands of dollars in court costs. And all of it cause by an ambiguous law that wasn't even broken. Failure to provide proof of financial responsibility was the official answer.

 

 

A record as long as the tattoos on my arm, and only for driving offenses. This was resolved a long, long time ago. But it is something that I still have bitter feelings about. It was nothing more than a way to keep the poor as poor as possible in my opinion and experience. I applaud the law and hope that it is used in good faith and for the good of all.

[enfield]

Let's just garnish their wages or disability/SS checks until the fines are paid.

[E4 No More]

3 hours ago, enfield said:

Let's just garnish their wages or disability/SS checks until the fines are paid.

Good idea. Let's drive them further into crime/poverty for the sake of revenue generation...not!

[bersaguy]

4 hours ago, enfield said:

Let's just garnish their wages or disability/SS checks until the fines are paid.

First issue with that plan is the Fderal Government will not allow Garnishment of either disability or Social Security checks what so ever.

If you put a garnishment they either won't work or soon as the garnishment hits their check which takes about 3 weeks they will just quit the job and go get another. It's not like jobs are hard to find if any one wants one. What will fix the issue is to make the payments affordable rill the debt is paid instead of taking 1/2 of their check each week make it a 25.00 or 30 dollar a week payment and you will find they will keep a job and pay the debt so they can get their license back. Then make sure they get insurance before they begin driving and if they don't take them away again.

I know this will work because I have 1 rogue Grandson that I wished would grow up and begin to accept his responsiblity for things he does and he played that game for over a year of job jumping. When a judge asked him how much he could afford to pay the court he told them and they accepted it and he paid his debt. It took 19 months but it got paid and he got insurance and was driving again right up until the Dead beat Dad law got him. Again the judge asked him how much he could pay towards his back child support and also pay his child support and keep his insurance paid and he told them and he and the judge came to an agreement but the judge made it clear about 1 thing. If he let this deal lasp he was going directly to jail.

Well he cleaned up his act and got off drugs  and could pass drug tests and even randon drug tests. His older brother owns and Electrical Contracting business and he pput him to work and taught him how to be an electrcian. After a year of proving he could stay clean, work every day and not was learning a trade his older brother stepped up to help him again. But this time Justin, the older brother that owned to company went to the judge and told the jidge that the mother of the child was a drug addict and he ask the judge to have her investigated. Sure enough she was on Meth and Heroine. He asked that the child be put in the care of the baby's grandparents as he had already ask them and my son and DIL agreed to it.

The judge sent Child Services to the home un announced and took the child into their care until everything could be arranged and now my Son and DIL have the little girl, Coty the girls father is still working every day nad finally got his life in line and the mother of the girl can visit the baby girl at my sons home only 1 hour a week on Sunday and is going to drug rehab. All of this took over a 3 year period to get it done but it shows it can happen if a judge is willing to work with people.

Sorry for the long post!!  

Edited October 25, 2018 by bersaguy