Hurricane Michael

[OLDNEWBIE]

Hurricane Michael

Looks like this one is going to be rather destructive. Hope everyone stays safe and gets themselves armed and ready in case but......

I'm of the opinion FEMA should not be paying out for repairs for free at tax payer expense.

If they do they should be able to put a lean on the property. If a home owner can't afford insurance why is it on the Taxpayer to fix the home?

Had a friend who had a home he inherited in S. FL. It needed a roof BEFORE the hurricane came and he had no insurance and owned the home outright.

He ended up with a free roof. The guy could have got a loan on the house to pay for a roof. 

In my mind he ripped off the Tax payer. I'm especially against any money going towards people who build on the coastal areas or mountainsides etc.

Places where it's risky to build. I'm for FEMA assistance after a disaster but there should be limits. It's too political now.

[n0rlf]

If you do not have insurance then it is on you. Yes I have sympathy but am also fiscally responsible. 

I am tired of the Fed paying for a lot of things they should not. Sandy, items, Katrina, etc...  Yes it is terrible for the people but it is not the government responsibility. Yet another downward area. People expect the government to take care of everything for them. 

Sad. 

[MacGyver]

It's a hard conversation that we need to have - but the private market has basically gotten out of the hurricane insurance business.

While many homeowners policies will cover wind damage as a named peril (with some exceptions), I'm not aware of any that will cover flood damage resulting from a hurricane at this point.  This the National Flood Insurance Program - federally backed.

It would drastically change the coastline if you had to pay market rates for insurance in flood zones.  You'd of course immediately lose any sense of affordability.  The thought process is that this would affect home prices and as such the economies in coastal areas.

It's a hard conversation - but I'm in favor of the government being less involved in picking winners and losers in any market.

I don't get to make the rules, though.

[n0rlf]

W when we looked Florida or rates skyrocketed after 04. We had four storms come right over top of us. 

And yes you better carry flood insurance.

And yes there was a huge impact on home prices. Lots of folks were paying more for insurance than a house payment. 

MosT of those were on the beach or close though. Some people could not get any coverage. So yeah, sorry but I should not have to pay for the rebuild every time a storm comes through. 

Yes, our insurance went up a lot. Just another reason we moved. When it hit 8600 a year it was ridiculous. That was not counting the flood insurance. 

So, how do we fix the insurance markets when they just want to cover the low less areas. Nice business model though. 

[bersaguy]

Well I can agree with this about 95% but in some cases I think I know why some folks don't have insurance. I know many peole remember when that Tornado hit Nashville hard and done some major damage and hit east Nashville especically hard. I have some friends that lived in East Nashville and got hit hard. They had homeowners insurance when it hit in 1998. They are still waiting on Insurance Companies to settle after 20 years. There are also people that suffered damage that could not afford insurance and FEMA stepped up and fixed their homes within a month.  I do realize what your saying and I agree but I think people have realized that having Insurance does not mean you will get help with your claim and get your home fixed in a timely fashion. They have all filed lawsuits and still waiting for settlements. Their homes go made livable but only because neighbors stepped up and helped them have a home again.

[MacGyver]

Y’all are conservatives.  I thought this is what you wanted? Free markets and all that? 

While I don’t play one on TV or TGO, I am generally fiscally conservative, so here goes...

You *should* bear some of the risk every time a hurricane comes through if you’re going to live there.

In a free market, insurance reflects actual risk models.  Hence your $8600/year homeowners policy with no flood coverage.  

In south Florida, the models are close to 100% that you’ll have a water incursion or flood event at least once in a 30 year mortgage.  Water damage is really expensive to fix.  

If you’re a free market conservative, then you shouldn’t get too upset about paying premiums that actually reflect your area’s risk. 

The problem is of course that since 1968 when the NFIP was started, we’ve had a bunch of hurricanes where insurers have gone bankrupt in affected areas.  That means no one gets reimbursed.  

Come forward 50 years, and the taxpayer subsidized version is the only option.  There aren’t any private insurers in the space - because they can’t collect enough premium to address the risk.  

Some of us would love to see some sanity introduced into coastal planning through insurance that actually reflects risk.  

But, like so many other things in the empire, we’re probably too far gone for that.  

[n0rlf]

I am all for the free market. It was a cost I choose not to beat so I left. That was my conservative choice. The area had gone to help anyway with the influx of illegal immigrants also, crime was up, cost of living was getting crazy, and the tourists were really getting it of hand. 

I did what I should have and left it all to the rat. All of Central Florida is pretty much a tourist trap anyway. 

As for insurance markets, week they seen to be a legal scam. State farm screwed a lot of folks. They were not alone. That topic could fill volumes of threads. Needless to say I have no love of any insurance company. Free market it is not though. Too much regulation has made it a one way scam. 

Planning is another joke. I saw no government planning board in Florida that did not sell out to the highest bidding developers. They were and are a constant source of laughter. Corruption at its finest. 

So yes I am for a lot less government. If you want to live in an area that has storms or flooding frequenty then have at it. Just do not expect anyone to pay for anything when it happens, again. 

Same as any other risk though. Climb a mountain and get hurt? You should have to cover the cost of rescue. Personal responsibility. 

Want a place where everyone covers the cost? Moscow is allowing immigration I hear. 

 

[Garufa]

I guess we’ve gotten away from “prayers for all those in harm’s way” to “sorry you’ve lost everything but life’s a bitch and you’re on your own”, literally a couple of hours after the hurricane hit land and is still raging. 

Nice.

[MacGyver]

Luckily Walton and Bay counties strengthened their building codes a lot after Erin and Opal in 1995.  This was a solid hit - but by all reports it sure looks like it could have been a lot worse.

Now east of there in the Big Bend area of the state where I've got some family - it's likely that you may see a lot of loss.

[mikegideon]

9 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Luckily Walton and Bay counties strengthened their building codes a lot after Erin and Opal in 1995.  This was a solid hit - but by all reports it sure looks like it could have been a lot worse.

Now east of there in the Big Bend area of the state where I've got some family - it's likely that you may see a lot of loss.

Fortunately, the eastern half of the storm was east of Panama City. So, a lot of expensive property was spared some of the storm surge. When it comes to the risk... if you live on the beach, you need to embrace the damn water. It's what the beach does.

I have a friend that is from there. He's a big ham radio operator. He was talking about the fact that his antennas and tower wouldn't withstand the storm. But his attitude seemed to be, "I live here, and that's part of it."

Edited October 10, 2018 by mikegideon

[mikegideon]

What's left of our (iHeart) studio tower in Panama City...

Edited October 10, 2018 by mikegideon

[MacGyver]

The gates of hell are in Panama City somewhere.  

[Raoul]

9 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

The gates of hell are in Panama City somewhere.  

Having been there I concur with your analysis.

 

[n0rlf]

51 minutes ago, Garufa said:

I guess we’ve gotten away from “prayers for all those in harm’s way” to “sorry you’ve lost everything but life’s a bitch and you’re on your own”, literally a couple of hours after the hurricane hit land and is still raging. 

Nice.

Nope, compassion is there but I am not a fan of paying for it when it keeps happening. Over and over. 

Not just the hurricanes though, think big picture, flooding along Rivers, blizzards, fires, everyone wants the gov to pay for it. Sorry, personal responsibility has to come in somewhere. 

And our thoughts are with everyone hoping for their safety. Compassion and understanding is not exclusive of cash. Helping them clean up, been there done that, provided shelter to those that need it. Just not paying for their roof again. 

[Raoul]

Perhaps if the evidence of man made global warming wasn't so evident we could all have a little more compassion. 

[mikegideon]

11 minutes ago, Raoul said:

Perhaps if the evidence of man made global warming wasn't so evident we could all have a little more compassion. 

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Again, I'm all for immediate disaster relief and recovery and I said I hope everyone stays safe.  No problem with funds for shelters, temporary assistance either.

But here we go again....

Not on board with tax payers footing the bill for people who take chances living on the coast with no insurance. 

Perhaps the reason hurricane insurance is so high is a lot of people don't buy knowing FEMA will help.

Smaller pool of people paying insurance means higher rates.

My friend could afford insurance at the time but chose to take a chance.

He got rewarded with a new free roof.

[Raoul]

No one with a mortgage is uninsured.

[OLDNEWBIE]

2 hours ago, Raoul said:

No one with a mortgage is uninsured.

I wonder what % owns their homes? I know my friend did because he outlived his mom and never moved out. It was paid for long ago.

Just getting into the biz but I've had a few who actually own outright here in Cookeville. Usually old. I would imagine plenty of folks who own outright in coastal areas choose not to pay the hefty premiums even if they could afford to.

[n0rlf]

14 minutes ago, Raoul said:

No one with a mortgage is uninsured.

Want to bet. Polk county Florida 2004, lots of folks had mortgages with no insurance. Lots that had insurance threw tarps on roofs and collected huge amounts. Then never fixed the roofs. 

Now it might be different but people find ways. 

[Raoul]

12 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

Want to bet. Polk county Florida 2004, lots of folks had mortgages with no insurance. Lots that had insurance threw tarps on roofs and collected huge amounts. Then never fixed the roofs. 

Now it might be different but people find ways. 

Not possible. Unless it was some kind of loan shark lender. Feds require insurance on loans and ive yet to see a legitimate lender that didn't require insurance.

[MacGyver]

When it comes to the other, there’s often more assumption than reality.  

The boring regularity of the financial markets are rarely good for outrage. 

[n0rlf]

58 minutes ago, Raoul said:

Not possible. Unless it was some kind of loan shark lender. Feds require insurance on loans and ive yet to see a legitimate lender that didn't require insurance.

Car insurance is mandated also. Yet there is uninsured and underinsured coverage. Lots of folks but coverage, cancel after sending it as proof of coverage. It was widely known after so many got caught after the storms. 

Criminals will find a way. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Perhaps to make home insurance in risky areas more affordable a super high deductible could be offered. 

Perhaps the cost of a roof and the average amount of water damage when a roof leaks in a storm.

Maybe this already exists, haven't owned a FL home for about 13 years. 

Insurance paid for our roof when a hurricane ripped off the shingles and water poured in one year BTW.

It was affordable back then. What changed?

 

[bud]

.

Edited November 11, 2018 by bud