Rant: Snubbies and new shooters

[Mike.357]

A new shooter, with little to no knowledge of a manual of arms is going to be better served by the DA revolver. How many trained and gun knowledgable people have up and shot themselves with a Glock? How many have done it with a DA revolver?

A new shooter is more than likely going to fondle the trigger. The long pull of a DA revolver will be their friend.

[Guest canynracer]

What about the blanket statement that the all mighty Glock is the end all choice for new shooters?

We are seriously comparing a snubbie to a Glock? find ma a snubbie that shot its owner in the ass....

[Punisher84]

I agree with Truthsayer. It IS annoying that people have a blanket answer for new shooters, ESPECIALLY for new female shooters. As though all women are going to limp-wrist or be unable to rack the slide. When I was thinking about buying a gun, several people told me (including the doofuses at the gun shop -- I never go to that gun shop anymore) that a .38 special was the way to go. When I finally got around to shooting a .38 snubbie (years later), it ranked at the bottom of my list of favorite guns for a million reasons.

As for racking the slide, this is more about determination and familiarity with the gun. If a person is afraid of the gun, how successful will their attempts to rack the slide be if they're not strong like all you buff men?

In any case, all women should carry a .45 semi-auto.

Here's where I stand. I don't think anyone should give any advice as to what gun will fit anyone. That is a personal decision you make. HOWEVER, I sell people guns and help them get training for those guns for a living.

Am I going to sell you a .38 because you're a pwetty wittle girl? Negative. I'm going to get your opinion and see what you like and what fits you. If you can't rack the slide after I've shown you 10 times how to properly do it and you're shaking like a leaf, I'm probably gonna start you at with a .22 and work up. Maybe to a revolver, maybe to a Desert Eagle.

The thing is revolvers work very well for alot of people that don't want to spend time with a semi-auto. That's a true fact. Can a semi-auto work just as well? Why sure it can, it's just up to the customer to purchase what they want. Plain and simple.

Oh and free advice to the ladies out there. When you come into a gun shop with your husband or boyfriend and YOU want to look at guns. Talk to the salesman and tell your significant other to shut up and let you pick. I hate when a lady comes in to look at a firearm and lets her B/F or whatever do all the talking. The gun is for YOU!

That same note any gun shop that employs the type of chauvinistic dweebs that tells a woman she needs a "woman's gun" should be run out of business.

[Guest Dr. Pepper]

That same note any gun shop that employs the type of chauvinistic dweebs that tells a woman she needs a "woman's gun" should be run out of business.

Exactly.

[Guest HexHead]

When my wife decided to get her carry permit and needed to learn to do it all herself, we started her out with my Browning HiPower. Well, she had some problems racking the slide when it involved cocking the hammer too. She practiced it and does it fine now.

Somewhere along the line, someone gave her a great tip. Along with using the left hand on top of the slide to hold the pistol while pushing the grip, she was told to just shrug her shoulders. That made all the difference in the world to her being able to rack the slide. Wrist or hand strength didn't enter into the equation at all anymore.

When she got her permit, obviously the HiPower was going to be too big for her to carry (it has adjustable sights too) so I bought a 442 figuring it's light, it's small, easy to use, just the thing to drop in her pocket or her purse. After all, that was the "conventional wisdom".

She HATED firing it. Hated the trigger pull, the recoil, basically everything about it. So we went looking for "her gun". The NRA convention was a great place to do that since everything was there and could be handled. Long story short, the HiPower is her range pistol and she has her own Para PDA.

I'm stuck with the snubby as my BUG.

[Shima]

You say that like there's something wrong having a J Frame as a BUG. I did the same. I bought my wife a 637 for a really good price because she liked my SP101, and found out she didn't like the 637. We bought her a Bersa 380 because she thought she wanted it, but now doesn't shoot it either. We bought her a Sig Mosquito that she likes to shoot at the range, but I don't know what we'll get her for CCW. Maybe a different 380. She doesn't like the recoil of a 9mm. Any suggestions? Yes, I do let her pick out her own.

[deerslayer]

IMO, a better option than a Glock 26 or a snubbie for a first time shooter is a S&W Model 60 with a 3" barrel. With the steel frame, longer barrel, and better sights, there is a massive difference in accuracy and recoil over a 2" J frame (especially the alloy frame ones), and it's more user-friendly than an auto. It's still small enough and light enough to carry. My wife started with one, and after practicing now and then for a couple months, she outshot all the men at her carry permit class with it.

[Guest Mugster]

+1 on a smith steel j frame and a 3" barrel with adjustable sights. Hard to find though.

Another option might be the sig in .380. Its a pretty easy slide to rack. Doesn't kick much, yet in small hands its "full sized". I don't know the number, and it's a pricey gamble.

The other thing is, if your carrying a weapon for the protection, you don't have to like the weapon. The key point is the protection not the weapon itself. I'll tell you all day long that some weapons are better than others, this is common sense. But you've got to carry something you can use if you have to that is the best weapon you can use effectively, even if you don't like the experience. I think people lose sight of this.

If your looking for something to shoot at the range and have fun, that's a different answer.

[Guest malbolja]

I think they're an excellent choice for beginners and non-"shooters". Autos and large revolvers tend to intimidate folks who aren't into guns.

I started my g/f on a snubbie with a bobbed hammer spur. She was intimidated by my other revolvers (the .357 was "too heavy" and she was unwilling to grasp the concept that heavy in this case was a good thing) and is still a bit skeert of automatics today even after shooting a couple of my 9MMs. Recoil is very manageable and the DAO trigger, while heavy, is smooth and was easy for her to master. She likes the snub, shoots it accurately, and carries it every day.

So where's the problem?

[memphismason]

I agree with Truthsayer. It IS annoying that people have a blanket answer for new shooters, ESPECIALLY for new female shooters. As though all women are going to limp-wrist or be unable to rack the slide. When I was thinking about buying a gun, several people told me (including the doofuses at the gun shop -- I never go to that gun shop anymore) that a .38 special was the way to go. When I finally got around to shooting a .38 snubbie (years later), it ranked at the bottom of my list of favorite guns for a million reasons.

As for racking the slide, this is more about determination and familiarity with the gun. If a person is afraid of the gun, how successful will their attempts to rack the slide be if they're not strong like all you buff men?

In any case, all women should carry a .45 semi-auto.

Ms. Dr. Pepper

I think I love you. I am married and all, but hey you are the perfect internet girlfriend.

Just kidding, but I really did like what you had to say.

[323ssplt]

I was going to post some really smart, awe inspiring post, but what does it matter, everyone already knows everything.

I agree with punisher, the gun is for the woman, and only the woman. Most women CAN'T deal with the double action of the snubbie and still keep the sights aligned. The snubiie is more of a "professional's gun" than the 1911 or any other rtyp of gun. I do agree the 3" revolver is a great compromise especially if it is a "k" frame. My 5'1" wife HATES all of my revolvers, she loves HER Sig P239 357Sig with short trigger, and she has recently fallen in love with 1911's.

[Guest Grout]

Folks 3 inch barrel revolvers are not very common.A 4 inch barrel is however.That length on a Smith K frame or similar sized Colt or Ruger revolver would be the optimum choice.

[Guest HexHead]

Folks 3 inch barrel revolvers are not very common.A 4 inch barrel is however.That length on a Smith K frame or similar sized Colt or Ruger revolver would be the optimum choice.

Oh yeah, that's a concealed carry pistol for a woman.

[Guest HexHead]

You say that like there's something wrong having a J Frame as a BUG. I did the same. I bought my wife a 637 for a really good price because she liked my SP101, and found out she didn't like the 637. We bought her a Bersa 380 because she thought she wanted it, but now doesn't shoot it either. We bought her a Sig Mosquito that she likes to shoot at the range, but I don't know what we'll get her for CCW. Maybe a different 380. She doesn't like the recoil of a 9mm. Any suggestions? Yes, I do let her pick out her own.

You must have missed the smiley after BUG.

My wife got used to 9mm with a heavy steel HiPower. Very light recoil on those, so it didn't put her off. Once she got "I like 9mm" in her head, it was much easier for her to transition to her alloy frame Para PDA. Btw, it doesn't feel much different than the HiPower when you shoot it.

Most .380s are blowback while the 9mms tend to be linked barrel and they might even feel to have less recoil than their smaller brothers. Maybe take her to the range and have her shoot something like a rental Beretta 92. Something steel, not polymer to get over her bias against 9mm. Once she has fun with a 9mm, that's half the battle.

[Guest HexHead]

+1 on a smith steel j frame and a 3" barrel with adjustable sights. Hard to find though.

Another option might be the sig in .380. Its a pretty easy slide to rack. Doesn't kick much, yet in small hands its "full sized". I don't know the number, and it's a pricey gamble.

The other thing is, if your carrying a weapon for the protection, you don't have to like the weapon. The key point is the protection not the weapon itself. I'll tell you all day long that some weapons are better than others, this is common sense. But you've got to carry something you can use if you have to that is the best weapon you can use effectively, even if you don't like the experience. I think people lose sight of this.

If your looking for something to shoot at the range and have fun, that's a different answer.

Funny, I found the SIG 232 with stock grips to be one of the most unpleasant pistols I've ever fired. Oh well.

You're right about the difference between a carry pistol and your fun at the range one. If you're going to take that attitude then I'd agree a snubby is a good choice. Just fire it enough to ensure it works and you can hit COM at 10-15 ft. When my wife kept saying she hated the 442, I would tell her "if you really need it, you won't care how much you hate shooting it."

Yeah, like that worked.

[Guest johnmattwill]

A new shooter, with little to no knowledge of a manual of arms is going to be better served by the DA revolver. How many trained and gun knowledgable people have up and shot themselves with a Glock? How many have done it with a DA revolver?

A new shooter is more than likely going to fondle the trigger. The long pull of a DA revolver will be their friend.

I agree 100%... this has been my experience... my wife got a DA only Taurus .38 for her first gun, qualified with it for her HCP.... She really doesnt want to be a "gun person" as stated in other sections... she just wants to protect herself if needed.....

She has shot my .45ACP's and loves to, but cant rack the slide and has trouble loading the mags... Not saying she couldnt if she practiced more (especially the slide on my XD-45, way too tight for her)

The long DA pull of her Taurus to be honest gives me piece of mind that she carries safe. I beileve in the long DA pull is her "friend"

[Guest Halfpint]

I agree with what 323SSPLT, the lovely (and awesome, by the way) Ms. Dr. Pepper, and Punisher have all said, very much so. The gun should fit both the shooter and the shooter's abilities and intentions. I by no means have the experience of some other members as far as sales/training go, but it really pisses me off when Boyfriend/Husband walks in and says "I'm looking for a gun for my wife." First words out of my mouth are always something to the effect of, "Then it would be easier if you had your wife with you, or let her look."

The only other piece of my mind I can give (which hasn't already been repeated ad nauseum) is that I absolutely HATE when women or even older men come in looking for a handgun for defense, saying "So-and-so told me to get X gun" but then it turns out they either can't rack the slide, can't figure out the manual of arms, or say out-right that X caliber kicks too much . . . but then go ahead and buy it because it's what that other person says to get.

Personal experience: I've been involved in shooting/teaching/learning (we're never really done learning, are we?) since I was five. Much more recently, I talked my girlfriend Tink into going shooting with me. Started her out before we even left the house, running through the basics of operation and safety on my Mosquito--lightweight, low recoil, and relatively easy to operate. First time out, she was a little nervous, but by the end of that first session, she said she wanted to go back again. She's not ever going to be a "gun nut" like me or some of the rest of us, but she now has a Mosquito of her own and plans for a 9mm of some sort in the future. She also LOVES shooting 1911's.

The first words out of her mouth the last time we went to Range USA, as soon as I had put the range bag down . . . She looks at me, palm out-stretched, and says in that "Do what I say" voice . . .

"Gimme your forty-five." Yes, I love her.

Here's where I stand. I don't think anyone should give any advice as to what gun will fit anyone. That is a personal decision you make. HOWEVER, I sell people guns and help them get training for those guns for a living.

Am I going to sell you a .38 because you're a pwetty wittle girl? Negative. I'm going to get your opinion and see what you like and what fits you. If you can't rack the slide after I've shown you 10 times how to properly do it and you're shaking like a leaf, I'm probably gonna start you at with a .22 and work up. Maybe to a revolver, maybe to a Desert Eagle.

The thing is revolvers work very well for alot of people that don't want to spend time with a semi-auto. That's a true fact. Can a semi-auto work just as well? Why sure it can, it's just up to the customer to purchase what they want. Plain and simple.

Oh and free advice to the ladies out there. When you come into a gun shop with your husband or boyfriend and YOU want to look at guns. Talk to the salesman and tell your significant other to shut up and let you pick. I hate when a lady comes in to look at a firearm and lets her B/F or whatever do all the talking. The gun is for YOU!

That same note any gun shop that employs the type of chauvinistic dweebs that tells a woman she needs a "woman's gun" should be run out of business.

Someone buy this man a beer! You, sir, have said everything I was going to say, far more eloquently than I would be capable of doing.

[Angus]

My first gun was a revolver because I got it for $20, no it wasn't hot, the seller was a moron when it comes to gun value. My next gun was a semi-auto in .45, the finest caliber known to man !!

I side with whomever stated that a shooter should find what is comfortable for them as an individual. I mean, if they don't experiment with weapons and then find out they arent suited to own a firearm at all, now what have we done?

I hate blankets too, specially those fuzzy ones that get crap all over your clothes.

[Guest Rando]

I believe I did it the right way, I let my wife shoot all of what I had and then took her to CCA in west Knox. and let her hold and work what they had and with there opinion and mine in hand she picked four to shoot and brought home a new Taurus titanium 38. HEY it was the golden colored one it matched her rings and everything not to mention she could out shoot me and a friend that have fired purtner everthin with it. OH she has since taken my Kel-Tec 380 and left me with the snubby. Can you say back up gun. I started to take it to the show to trade on but she may change her mind and there is nothing wrong with her having more than one gun I mean look at all of the shoes and purses. I do when she says why did you need another one now she knows !!!!!!

[Punisher84]

"Gimme your forty-five." Yes, I love her.

Someone buy this man a beer! You, sir, have said everything I was going to say, far more eloquently than I would be capable of doing.

Hey Marine! If anybody is buying anybody a beer, I'm buying you one.

[towerclimber37]

And she tried many different systems before making her decision. More importantly, you didn't just throw the snub in her lap and say "Here's the solution. Good Luck."

oh..I know this one Truth...His wife pretty much had all SORTS of pistols before she decided on the one she has now...and make no mistake..that lady is dead on accurate with it.

I think she missed only 2 shots during her qualification for carry...

I submit that a revolver, while it CAN have a catastrophic failure..it happens much much less than it does with automatics, simply because they're a much simpler system.

I KNOW that they're more reliable.

I wouldn't suggest that a new shooter get a short barrel..heck, if they need to learn to shoot, I suggest a .22 and lots of practice. if they don't like that answer then there's not much for me to say.

.22's are less forgiving when it comes to correct stance, breathing, hold, etc.

Just my 2 cents..

[Guest bazookazilla]

"Remember when OJ tried to put his glove on and it wouldn't fit?"

sorry if I am misquoting, but I added the italics in the previous statement. I am late to read or comment on this thread, but I just enjoyed the earlier statement too much to not comment. I love it!

[Guest Astra900]

When I got my wife into shooting, the first handgun she ever fired, ever, was a Taurus PT145. She never had a problem out of it. She even shot a Taurus revolver I used to have, titanium frame .44 spl, no problem.

It's kinda up to the person as to what they start out with. Some people are a little chicken:poop: and maybe they ought to start out with a .22:shrug:

[deerslayer]

Folks 3 inch barrel revolvers are not very common.A 4 inch barrel is however.That length on a Smith K frame or similar sized Colt or Ruger revolver would be the optimum choice.

3" J-frames are not that hard to find. A quick search on gunbroker revealed a few 3" Model 60s, and a couple 3" Taurus 605s. Locally, Guns and Ammo usually has one in stock.

A 4" K-frame is a bit harder to conceal than a 3" J-frame.

[Guest abailey362]

i am for the side that says it depends on the shooter.

I used to be a generic "get a j-frame" response, until I bought my wife one. She hated it. We then started going through my guns, and even though she can't slam back the slide on some of them she has learned the proper way to hold each one and work the slide.

let them play with different types and get what they like/shoot best.