Officer entering wrong apartment, killing occupant

[dralarms]

21 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I’m just saying the drinking stuff is fake news. She made a mistake; no doubt about that. I feel terrible for both her and the victim. Not because she is a cop; but because I am a compassionate human being. There was no intent, there was no recklessness. If you want to call it stupidity; so be it.

Well, I’ve lived in an apartment complex and I could tell which one was mine even completely wasted. Maybe stupid was not a good word but she went into the wrong apartment. No there was no intent, it’s a bad situation all around. I just don’t understand how you can go into the wrong apartment. We’re they all keyed the same? Was the door unlocked?  Too many questions. 

[cajunpredfan]

Mistakes happen.

When I was in my mid-20's living in Houston in the 80's I lived on the 3rd floor of an apartment building. The apartments were basically 3 identical buildings in a row, I lived in the middle building. I was home one night with my door unlocked, I know, not smart, I noticed my door knob start to turn, I jumped up ran to the door opened it and confronted the guy on the other side of the door. He said he had the wrong apartment building and was sorry for the mistake. His key went into the key hole and he turned the key, since the door was not locked the door knob moved.  So I know mistakes like this can happen, usually firearms are not involved.

Did she commit murder, I don't think so based on what I have heard. However, I am not privy to what the jury knows.

I think that it should be either second degree murder or manslaughter. I also think that she was just made an example of and she has to pay the price of past injustices, real or not.

[Erik88]

1 hour ago, dralarms said:

Well, I’ve lived in an apartment complex and I could tell which one was mine even completely wasted. Maybe stupid was not a good word but she went into the wrong apartment. No there was no intent, it’s a bad situation all around. I just don’t understand how you can go into the wrong apartment. We’re they all keyed the same? Was the door unlocked?  Too many questions. 

I think the defense interviewed dozens of other people that had made the same mistake in that apartment complex. Apparently it was easy to mix up apartments.  Something was wrong with his door. It would not lock or even shut all the way. She just made a series of horrible decisions. 

[dralarms]

8 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I think the defense interviewed dozens of other people that had made the same mistake in that apartment complex. Apparently it was easy to mix up apartments.  Something was wrong with his door. It would not lock or even shut all the way. She just made a series of horrible decisions. 

Yea that’s tough. If that’s the case they should color code the doors per floor and fix the stinking locks. I feel for her in that case but her goose is cooked. The biggest thing that sunk he is the statement she made that she intended on killing him. Other than that she might have gotten off with a manslaughter charge and not murder. 

[E4 No More]

16 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Anyone who posts on a board like TGO ought to give that some hard thought. 

It's why I changed my handle on the forum and masked my location.  

Also, don't think that your privacy setting in Facebook keeps others out of your content. My wife found that out during lawsuit negotiations. They got a post of hers even though she has her account as private. Just another reason why I dislike Facebook.

[E4 No More]

2 hours ago, dralarms said:

Well, I’ve lived in an apartment complex and I could tell which one was mine even completely wasted. Maybe stupid was not a good word but she went into the wrong apartment. No there was no intent, it’s a bad situation all around. I just don’t understand how you can go into the wrong apartment. We’re they all keyed the same? Was the door unlocked?  Too many questions. 

The door was ajar.

[DaveTN]

17 minutes ago, dralarms said:

Yea that’s tough. If that’s the case they should color code the doors per floor and fix the stinking locks. I feel for her in that case but her goose is cooked. The biggest thing that sunk he is the statement she made that she intended on killing him. Other than that she might have gotten off with a manslaughter charge and not murder. 

Absolutely, because if she was a trained Police Officer that probably wasn’t a true statement. She was emotional and trying to take responsibility for what she had done. She went overboard. I would assume that is because of her emotions and her attorney’s failure to properly prepare her for her testimony.

Had this been a young woman coming home from her 13 hour shift at the local hospital as a nurse and made this mistake, this trial would probably not be happening, and a jury absolutely would not have convicted her of murder. They did it because she was a cop and because she made it easy for them by saying “I feel like I don’t deserve to be with my family and friends.” and that when she fired, she intended to kill him.

[E4 No More]

22 minutes ago, dralarms said:

Yea that’s tough. If that’s the case they should color code the doors per floor and fix the stinking locks. I feel for her in that case but her goose is cooked. The biggest thing that sunk he is the statement she made that she intended on killing him. Other than that she might have gotten off with a manslaughter charge and not murder. 

This is why many law enforcement agencies taught their officers to say that they shoot to stop. Saying that you were shooting to kill or injure opens a big can of worms.

[DaveTN]

3 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

This is why many law enforcement agencies taught their officers to say that they shoot to stop. Saying that you were shooting to kill or injure opens a big can of worms.

"Make them unable or unwilling to fire their weapon."

[DaveTN]

The other potential problem here is that if this verdict is overturned or reduced, as it should be; there will be high drama and possible rioting, driven by the press, saying she is getting off because she is a cop. Or maybe, they (this Judge, or judges hearing the appeal) will let it stand due to fear of riots. Hard telling.

[Whisper]

I'm not expecting the sentence to be overturned.  But in Texas the penalty for murder is 5 to 99 years, which gives a lot of leeway.  All the news stations are saying "possible 99 year sentence," but nothing like that is going to happen.  Should see get five years for needlessly killing a man who was sitting quietly in his own home watching a ball game and eating ice cream?  I'd have a hard time finding fault with that.

[DaveTN]

3 minutes ago, Whisper said:

I'm not expecting the sentence to be overturned.  But in Texas the penalty for murder is 5 to 99 years, which gives a lot of leeway.  All the news stations are saying "possible 99 year sentence," but nothing like that is going to happen.  Should see get five years for needlessly killing a man who was sitting quietly in his own home watching a ball game and eating ice cream?  I'd have a hard time finding fault with that.

I thought I saw something that said the minimum for what she was convicted of was 20 years??

[E4 No More]

36 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I thought I saw something that said the minimum for what she was convicted of was 20 years??

I seem to recall the same thing being reported, but, then again, the news reported a mountain lion by the Coconut Bay Cafe too.

[btq96r]

2 hours ago, dralarms said:

The biggest thing that sunk he is the statement she made that she intended on killing him. Other than that she might have gotten off with a manslaughter charge and not murder. 

Ding, ding, ding.

I remember in my handgun carry class being told the use of a weapon in self-defense cannot be for the purpose of killing someone threatening your life, only neutralizing the threat that exists.  Probability says that as often as not, a well placed shot will kill someone, but that cannot be your intent when pulling the trigger.  If she truly had it in her mind to kill in that moment- and her testimony stands as evidence of such- then she's guilty of murder and should be imprisoned accordingly under her state's law.  Accidental circumstances and mental fatigue from work don't absolve someone if they pull the trigger with intent to kill.

[Omega]

2 hours ago, btq96r said:

Ding, ding, ding.

I remember in my handgun carry class being told the use of a weapon in self-defense cannot be for the purpose of killing someone threatening your life, only neutralizing the threat that exists.  Probability says that as often as not, a well placed shot will kill someone, but that cannot be your intent when pulling the trigger.  If she truly had it in her mind to kill in that moment- and her testimony stands as evidence of such- then she's guilty of murder and should be imprisoned accordingly under her state's law.  Accidental circumstances and mental fatigue from work don't absolve someone if they pull the trigger with intent to kill.

I hate word games!  When you are in a situation where your life is in danger, and it's either you or him, I vote him.  They "teach" us to use words such as nutralize, and stop the threat when you really mean shoot to kill.  Why, because a dead threat can't continue to be a threat.  Nobody is advocating doing a coup de grâce on a downed perp, but definitely keep shooting until the threat is eliminated.  Her (one of many) mistake was voicing that idea in such a manner.  If I was a juror, I would have voted to downgrade to manslaughter, she did not set out to kill this guy, did not make the decision to enter his apartment.  A grave mistake is not murder, even those who killed someone while driving under the influence are charged with manslaughter. and you can argue that those who drive drunk choose to drive so are in that situation intentionally. 

[Whisper]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I thought I saw something that said the minimum for what she was convicted of was 20 years??

In Texas, murder (not capital murder, which we in TN would call first degree murder) is a first degree felony. Texas Penal Code §12.32 prescribes these sentences:

• Imprisonment in the institutional division for life, or

• Imprisonment in the institutional division for not more than 99 years or less than five years with the exception of aggravated sexual assault, which adds a 25-year minimum punishment if the victim is younger than 6, or younger than 14 and the offense contained threats of serious bodily injury or death, or use of a deadly weapon.

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

A grave mistake is not murder, even those who killed someone while driving under the influence are charged with manslaughter. and you can argue that those who drive drunk choose to drive so are in that situation intentionally. 

I’ve used the DUI example before; and it is murder. Problem is a lot of people can see them or their kids killing someone in an accident when they are DUI. But they can’t see themselves walking into the wrong apartment and thinking it is theirs.

[Chucktshoes]

While folks are busy feeling sorry for the woman who they think got unfairly overcharged, I feel like this is an opportune time to remind folks that the actual victim here was sitting on his own couch eating ice cream when someone who didn’t belong there walked in and shot him to death. 

Did she make some terrible mistakes, yep. That doesn’t lessen her responsibility for her actions any in this case. Texas is a state that’s pretty liberal with its laws regarding use of lethal force. You can use lethal force to defend property, not just a person in Texas. Yet, she was convicted of murder. Why? I believe it’s because ultimately she was in that man’s home. It was his castle, not hers, and she made conscious choice to take action to kill him. That admission of hers is what I believe sealed her fate, and rightfully so. If he had accidentally wandered into her home and she shot and killed him, it would have been tragic still, but no charges would have been filed because he would have been someplace he didn’t belong.

You can find yourself in a terrible situation through accident and errors in judgement, and still be 100% responsible. In this case she did, and she is. 

[Defender]

She got 10 years.  Ive seen worse killing get less time.  She was wrong, but 10 years for an accident?  

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, Defender said:

She got 10 years.  Ive seen worse killing get less time.  She was wrong, but 10 years for an accident?  

10 years & eligible for parole in 5 for killing a man on his own couch seems mercifully Light to me.  

[E4 No More]

2 minutes ago, Defender said:

She got 10 years.  Ive seen worse killing get less time.  She was wrong, but 10 years for an accident?  

She'll probably be out in 5 but she'll have to spend that entire time in isolation because she was a cop.

[Erik88]

39 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

10 years & eligible for parole in 5 for killing a man on his own couch seems mercifully Light to me.  

Yep. She's still sucking air, he's not.  She got off easy. 

[Chucktshoes]

 

[MacGyver]

Just in case anyone wants to see what a reflection of the kingdom of heaven looks like, this is about as close to it as you’re likely to see.  

 

[Omega]

I'm not diminishing the fact that the man lost his life, he is the victim no doubt about it, or am I advocating for her to be given a pass.  But it seems to me that some of you seem to be overly harsh on her for no other reason than she was a cop.  

Edited October 3, 2019 by Omega