Officer entering wrong apartment, killing occupant

[bersaguy]

14 hours ago, SWJewellTN said:

The ones I let go with a warning were the ones who said something like, "Yes, officer...I screwed up." The ones that I wrote were the ones who said something like, "Your RADAR is wrong!" or "I'm late for work!" or "You're just picking on me!"

When the officer folllowed me into my driveway and turned his lights on I kind of knew he was wanting me to stop...LOL. I gave him room to get nto my driveway with his car before stopping. His first statement to me was "How are yo doing today sir?" My reply was "fine sir and yours? He asked me for my lcense, Registration and proof of insurance which I provided and he ask me why I was not wearing my seat belt and I said, I am and I opened my door so he could see my lap belt was clicked. He asked me why I had altered the seat belt and I handed him a letter I keep in the Jeep from my doctor explaining why it is altered and he read it and said to make sure I keep it in the Jeep. Then he told me why he pulled me over. My tags had expired in June and I never got a notice. I said "well they never sent me my notice and he said "yea, sometimes they miss some". He wrote me the ticket and he also told me what steps to take to get the ticket dismissed.I signed it and he thanked me and I thanked him and we told each other to have a nice rest of the day. I went and got tags the next day and then went directly to the court clerks office with proof of tags and they said I did not have to report for court and they stamped my ticket as dismissed. I signed it and he thanked me and I thanked him and we told each other to have a nice rest of the day.

[Capbyrd]

26 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I don't have any reason to believe your statement. I have several black friends that live here in Gallatin and they all get along fine with the police. We also have several black officers and I never hear of them being anything but professional when dealing with the public. I do realize that you live in or near Memphis and the atmosphere and enviroment is probably different, I don't know. I can only speak of my experiences with the officers here and in surroundng towns.

https://wreg.com/2017/07/24/wreg-investigation-leads-to-exoneration-of-brownsville-woman-police-accused-of-carrying-a-stolen-gun/

[owejia]

There are ass***** in every profession. Never had a bad experience with an officer. Learned as a young lad not to lie when caught [speeding,or other infraction] just own it and move on. Have been let off with warning before because I believe just telling the truth simply deescalates the situation. 

[bersaguy]

13 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

https://wreg.com/2017/07/24/wreg-investigation-leads-to-exoneration-of-brownsville-woman-police-accused-of-carrying-a-stolen-gun/

I will not say that things like this don't happen because they do. Everyday in some town someplace things like this happen and I do hope she does file a civil suit and I hope she wins and along with winning the suit I do hope she gets the public apology which I don't she will get. Those don't come as easy as money does in these cases. I agree that if you search the internet your going to  find a lot of simlar cases. Some people pass it off as human error. I won't do that. I will call it a rookie move or an over zealous officer just looking to prove something and a person with that type of personality does not need to be a police officer. They are the officers that do give the good officers a bad reputation. 

[Capbyrd]

1 minute ago, bersaguy said:

 They are the officers that do give the good officers a bad reputation. 

 

I disagree with this part the most.  The job is what gives them the bad reputation.  Remember, they have sworn an oath to use deadly force against the people at the command of politicians.  

[bersaguy]

4 minutes ago, owejia said:

There are ass***** in every profession. Never had a bad experience with an officer. Learned as a young lad not to lie when caught [speeding,or other infraction] just own it and move on. Have been let off with warning before because I believe just telling the truth simply deescalates the situation. 

If you did it admit it. Arguing is only going to escalate what would be just warning into a full blow arrest..........JMHO

[peejman]

1 hour ago, btq96r said:

Maybe, maybe not.  I'd imagine at any income level, the chance to earn more is a strong enough motivator to make people put in a lot of overtime hours.  I see it often enough with the physicians I work with at my job, and they're making a hell of a lot more than cops.

Doctors are hourly?  Perhaps they have lots of college debt to pay off, but that's another thread. 

[bersaguy]

3 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

 

I disagree with this part the most.  The job is what gives them the bad reputation.  Remember, they have sworn an oath to use deadly force against the people at the command of politicians.  

I cannot and will never agree with your opinion on this if what you just posted here is how you really feel about Law Enforcement Officers! To group them all as bad is totally wrong at so many levels and tosay they are told to be this way by the politicians is even out of the realm of reality........JMHO

[n0rlf]

These discussions almost come down to the supporters and the haters. It is sad but true. For as long as I have been on the internet it has been that way and I have been around a long time. 

Several things with police:

1.  If you have never been there done that then you cannot speak from the same reference points. You are nothing more than Monday morning QBing.

2.  Most that are in the hater group are those that do not get along with any authority. Personally I think it is a resentment form a mispent youth and parenting.

3.  Police have to make decisions in split seconds. If they shoot they are raked over the coals, of they don't they are some other innocent may die.

4.  Most citizens have no idea what a LEO goes through on a daily basis. If they did there would be a lot more respect for the job.

5.  Unions are the PROBLEM not the solution. They protect the bad regardless of overwhelming evidence most of the time.

6.  Corruption is rampant throught some departments. Others not quite so much.

7.  80/20 rule applies to LEO just like any other profession

8.  Follow directions, do as told, act responsibly and you should have no problems regardless of race, color, creed, religion, or terrestrial origin. You can fight it later if needed.

9.  Claiming to be a free/Soveriegn citizen makes for great funny videos. Please continue to do so!

10.  And last but the most important is the usual rule. "YMMV, You get out of something what you put in." IOW, act like an arse and youo will treated as one!

 

Of course that is all my opinon and having served at one point in life. I learned quickly I do not have the temperment for that job. i did it in the military as it was a little different, once I hit the civilian side i realized quickly i do not handle stupid well. Bad combination. I moved on to something more to my liking. Since then i have had a few interations with LEO. 95% traffic related. (Drove a truck, in millions of miles I did bend a speed limit here or there). Acting human and respectful has always served me well. If I got a ticket I deserved it. I got warnings many times as I treated the officer with respect. Sir or ma'am goes a long way. 

Of course, I still believe that our nation is suffering from a generation of people that were not parented. They were raised by the internet and reality TV. Funny how they just do not understand the moral and ethical side of life.

 

[E4 No More]

49 minutes ago, peejman said:

Doctors are hourly?  Perhaps they have lots of college debt to pay off, but that's another thread. 

There's doctors at the VA doing part time work and making bank. Not really hourly, however.

[Capbyrd]

48 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I cannot and will never agree with your opinion on this if what you just posted here is how you really feel about Law Enforcement Officers! To group them all as bad is totally wrong at so many levels and tosay they are told to be this way by the politicians is even out of the realm of reality........JMHO

I didn't say they are all bad.  I said that the job is bad and so cops get a bad reputation from that.  And how am I wrong about politicians?  The politicians pass whatever law they want, and then the cops enforce that law.  When the 2nd Amendment finally gets repealed, who do you think will be coming for your guns?  It will be the police.  And they will just be doing their jobs.  The further into this social experiment called America that we get, the less and less freedom The People have.  

[btq96r]

53 minutes ago, peejman said:

Doctors are hourly?  Perhaps they have lots of college debt to pay off, but that's another thread. 

Not hourly....but sometimes per procedure, or for taking overnight call, or just a double shift for two days worth of pay.    Also see doctors in our practice who sell vacation time and work for whoever bought it.  All from those still paying off medical school loans, and/or those who want to fund a lifestyle or investments to keep that lifestyle in retirement.

Now, cops on a middle class income are different, but don't think raising their pay won't solve the manning issues forcing extra shifts or the motivation to take them.

[bersaguy]

I did some MP assignments while serving in Military and there was times  I had to work or interact with Civilian Police Officers and for the most part they were good officers. Had a couple times that the Civilian Officers would push the envelope into a gray area and we had to put them in their place which didn't take much convincing since they didn't have the training we had. They would fall in line pretty quick. 

[bersaguy]

13 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

I didn't say they are all bad.  I said that the job is bad and so cops get a bad reputation from that.  And how am I wrong about politicians?  The politicians pass whatever law they want, and then the cops enforce that law.  When the 2nd Amendment finally gets repealed, who do you think will be coming for your guns?  It will be the police.  And they will just be doing their jobs.  The further into this social experiment called America that we get, the less and less freedom The People have.  

Have you ever considered what it would be like to live here and not have police officers? I would hate to even think what it would be like!! The job is not bad but the few bad apples doing the job or not doing their job is the  real issue. As far as the politicians making the laws. Just making the law does not automatically require that a police officer must enforce any law. They are allowed to use their own decretion when enforcing any laws and how they enforce them.

As far as the 2nd Amendment goes it will take a really major change in the Supreme Court to get that done and just a couple years ago the court ruled the 2nd Amendment to be 100% Constitutional and it shall remain that way so I don't see that changing any time soon. So the law enforcement must by law follow the decision of the Supreme Court. That means the police won't be coming for your guns any time soon unless you do something stupid with them........JMHO. 

[DaveTN]

50 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Have you ever considered what it would be like to live here and not have police officers? I would hate to even think what it would be like!!

Or more likely what will happen, when PD’s can’t find good recruits that want the job and have to relax their standards.

Police Departments are as different as night and day. Even within the same state. Some departments have hiring requirements that are very stringent, and have excellent training. Others will hire anyone that meets the minimum requirements, and do little or no follow-up training.

[bersaguy]

38 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Or more likely what will happen, when PD’s can’t find good recruits that want the job and have to relax their standards.

Police Departments are as different as night and day. Even within the same state. Some departments have hiring requirements that are very stringent, and have excellent training. Others will hire anyone that meets the minimum requirements, and do little or no follow-up training.

I think that has been happenng already Dave. There are police departments that take pride in their officers and train them to be the best they can be and then there are police departments that just hire warm bodies to have more presence of officers on the streets and have almost zero training. Those are the ones that alway seem to be making the nightly news. My Grandson went to work in one of those and he quit them in 2 weeks because of the way that particular department was operated. He got in a situation where he needed backup and it took almost 30 minutes for back up to show up. By the time it arrived he had handled the situation and when he got back the office he questioned why it took so long for back up to arrive. They informed him that if he needed back up maybe he was not qualified to be a cop. He turned in his badge right then and said maybe they needed a new policy and better training. He went to another department in another county and got a full training program at the Metro Police Academy before he was put on the street and when an officer radioed for back up it was there with in a matter of minutes. All cars close by responded imediately. So yea Dave you are correct about each department being different. Any police department that offers on the job training is not someplace I would prefer to work..........JMHO

[broox]

I really like this article. Especially when it talks about her commands.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/amber-guyger-botham-jean-shooting-police-must-face-impartial-justice/

[bersaguy]

This is not the first time something like this has happened.. The google search engine is full of incidents of police going to wrong house and home owners being killed during the raid. One man was killed by officers while trying to serve a warrant at the wrong house. Another man was killed by police in his home due to a fake call of a hostage situation and the list goes on.

I am not defending the officer at all for what she did. I do have questions that will never get answered because the only one that can answer them is dead. 1 question is why did he not give some kind of response to the officers commands. Any reply would have been better than none. Second was why was the man standing in a totally dark apartment? The answers are not going to change the outcome of what happened this time but might shed some light so things like this don't happen again. Maybe next time an incident like this comes up the person will respond to the officer and live to tell about it.................JMHO 

[Links2k]

I’m a little late to this party, but I don’t think this was an accidental shooting. There are reports that the officer had filed several noise complaints against the victim, including one that day. There are also six witnesses that say the the officer was banging on the door and yelling for the victim to open up.  

I don’t know if it’s valid, but there is also a photo circulating that claims to show the shooter and the victim together.

If reports about the noise complaints and photo are true, the shooter knew exactly where she was, and wore her uniform against department policy to intimidate the victim. 

I’ll wait for more facts, but in the mean time I’ll say that this reminds me of a Dave Chappell’s skit where a veteran cop claims to have seen a case as a rookie where a dead black person was accused of breaking into a home and hanging pictures of his family everywhere. It was the dead man’s home. The  cops put drugs on him and left.

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by LINKS2K
Removed vulgar video

[Chucktshoes]

3 minutes ago, LINKS2K said:

I’m a little late to this party, but I don’t think this was an accidental shooting. There are reports that the officer had filed several noise complaints against the victim, including one that day. There are also two witnesses that say the the officer was banging on the door and yelling for the victim to open up.  

I don’t know if it’s valid, but there is also a photo circulating that claims to show the shooter and the victim. 

If reports about the noise complaints and photo are true, the shooter knew exactly where she was, and wore her uniform against department policy to intimidate the victim. 

I’ll wait for more facts, but in the mean time I’ll say that this reminds me of a Dave Chappell’s skit. https://youtu.be/OY-9P_CnNZg WARNING NSFW 

I hope that’s just the internet being the internet. If not, I’m torn on whether the charges should be upgraded to murder. If any of that is true, then it would absolutely be worthy of a murder charge, but recent history has shown us that juries are loathe to convict cops of murdering folks. So the question is do you upgrade the charges to what’s appropriate, or do you for for the easier conviction to acquire some (if incomplete) measure of justice? 

It’s all a hypothetical, but still a troubling question. 

[Omega]

The picture story, is wrong:

 https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/09/09/internet-wrong-botham-jean-officer-amber-guyger-didnt-pose-together-photo

[Erik88]

I knew that wasn't her in the picture. That girl was too thick to be the cop and doesn't look like her in the face. Now the noise complaints are another story. That could be possible. Police are already trying to smear the victim by saying he had weed in his apartment. I don't care if he had kilos of Cocaine and a dead hooker. It has nothing to do with this case. It's a sad shameful attempt by the cops to make him look bad.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Erik88

[DaveTN]

Who released the information from the warrant? Should they have covered up they recovered illegal drugs? It looks like pretty much a standard investigation to me. What says they might think drug involvement was the victim? Is there not concerns that the Officer may have been intoxicated?    

[owejia]

So many questions but no answers!!!  Maybe get answers at the trial criminal or civil.

[KahrMan]

Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was fired after an investigation determined she “engaged in adverse conduct when she was arrested for manslaughter” in the killing of her black neighbor, officials said. Guyger was arrested on a manslaughter charge after she shot and killed Botham Jean earlier this month. An arrest affidavit obtained by Fox News said Botham allegedly ignored Guyger’s “verbal commands” before she opened fire. 

 

 

Interesting wording.  She was not fired for killing Jean but for something she did when she was arrested.

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by KahrMan