Officer entering wrong apartment, killing occupant

[owejia]

Been trying to get my head wrapped around this since first read about it. How do you not know which apartment is yours? Smells a little fishy to me.

[MacGyver]

This will at the very least be a manslaughter charge. 

I feel terrible for everyone concerned.  

[Erik88]

I'm wondering if she was intoxicated. I can't understand how she could make a mistake this badly. The key not working should have been the first indication. Apparently he eventually opened the door for her and that's when he was shot.

[gregintenn]

47 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

This will at the very least be a manslaughter charge. 

 

Only because it was made public.

Edited September 9, 2018 by gregintenn

[bersaguy]

Quote

 

I'm going to wait till the entire story is out before making a conclusion but as someone else has already said it looks fishy. I don't think anything fishy is going on now that Texas Rangers have been brought in the investigate the shooting. I only have 1 issue with what I have read so far. Why can't the news media write a headline that reads Police Officer shoots man in his apartment thinking it was her apartment. Why do they have to make sure a race card is played every time.  He was a man that got shot while in his own apartment by a police officer that made a mistake thinking it was her apartment. She should not get any special treatment for her mistake. If the guy would have been white would it have made any difference??? Would a white mans family not be hurting right now also. It is a terrible shame it happened at all and the race card is totally in-material. A man lost his life period................JMHO  

[Jamie Jackson]

It looks like Mac was certainly right on the manslaughter charge. And my condolences to all involved. It's definitely a tragic situation.

The details will come out in the trial.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/09/dallas-cop-who-killed-man-in-his-home-charged-with-manslaughter.html

[Erik88]

3 hours ago, prag said:

It looks like Mac was certainly right on the manslaughter charge. And my condolences to all involved. It's definitely a tragic situation.

The details will come out in the trial.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/09/dallas-cop-who-killed-man-in-his-home-charged-with-manslaughter.html

The family was right, had this been any other person they would have been charged immediately. Better late than never I suppose. 

[GlockSpock]

I am in no way excusing the actions of the officer; She messed up big time and it cost someone their (innocent) life.

However, I do have a story. One time when going to the local community college, I got out of class and walked outside to my vehicle. I went, got in my 1998 Chevrolet Blazer. As I opened to door, I thought "oh crap, someone bust my driver side mirror".  Then I sat there and realized someone had strewn some of my cds all around, and realized that they must have gotten inside somehow.  Then I realized that in their mischief, they not only stole my radio but replaced it with a different one.

I'll let anyone smart figure out what happened.

The point is, in about 10 seconds, I was very, very confused. This was in broad daylight. I eventually figured it out, but it did take 5-10 seconds. The similarities were there. Enough similarities to recreate the feel of being in my Blazer, after someone "tampered" with it.

I imagine, with or without alcohol or drugs in the system, depending on the time of day and dependent upon the layout of the apartment complex, it is probably that in the right circumstances any of us placed in the apartment scenario could have at minimum mistook the resident as "an intruder".

A lot of these apartment complexes are built 100% exactly the same floor by floor. If the officer was busy (talking on the phone, talking to a friend, texting, reading something, etc), and accidentally got off the wrong elevator floor or walked too few or too many staircases, it's possible she was on a floor that looked exactly like hers but was +1 or -1. The same room +1 or -1 floor would look exactly the same. Without paying specific attention to the room number, she had every reason to think the room was hers. The "key not working" coupled with the fact that someone opened the door that she did not recognize would reinforce the feelings that someone had tampered with her door and gained access (as in, got inside and either purposefully or accidentally disabled the keyhole). It's possible that inside the apartment the walls/entry way would be uniform, so it may not have stood out that it "wasn't her apartment". 

Again, I'm not excusing her actions at all. She made a grave mistake and someone is dead because of it. But I know how it is possible to, for about 5-10 seconds, become completely confused as to where you are vs where you think you are.

[owejia]

She was in uniform having just ended her shift, always be aware of your surroundings. Maybe she is just a loose cannon waiting to explode. Probably will never learn the truth because only one witness left to tell a story.

[n0rlf]

2 minutes ago, owejia said:

She was in uniform having just ended her shift, always be aware of your surroundings. Maybe she is just a loose cannon waiting to explode. Probably will never learn the truth because only one witness left to tell a story.

Are you looking for "Truth" or facts? They are not always the same thing! 

What are you saying should be the outcome here?

Officer has been charged with Manslaughter. In my opinion that woulkd be the right charge. 

What charge would you have pushed for?

[Erik88]

2 hours ago, owejia said:

Maybe she is just a loose cannon waiting to explode

My word. Do you always jump to such drastic conclusions? You could have made a career in the news business. 

[bersaguy]

The only issue I can find with this case so far is the news media and the mans family. I understand he was a black gentleman that was shot and killled and in my humble opinion a man lost his life and it was not a black and white issue. It was a mans life issue. It was a very very poor decision issue that should have never happened. Now with that said. For years we as a people have been trying to get past the issue of race yet it seems that many people just cannot manage to do that. Especially the news medias and in many cases black families.

The man that lost his life was black. Would it have been different had he been white and shot by a black officer. I wonder if the news media headlines would have read Black Officer shoots White Man and kills him by accident.

I also wonder if the mans family would have been claiming it was a racial shoot because he was white? I have not seen a shooting of a white man by a black police officer yet with those kind of headlines.

Are we ever going to get passed the race card and just consider that we are all human beings and all lives matter?....................JMHO

[DaveTN]

This is terrible for all involved.

This is a case where intelligent discussion can be had about the public perceptions of the Police.

I’m not one to jump to conclusions about anyone’s shootings, cops or not, until we know the facts. We don’t have the facts and probably won’t for a very long time.

That’s the first problem. Dallas PD quickly backed off this saying it was not an Officer involved shooting. They handed it off to the Texas Rangers. So that means this was a citizen who is legally allowed to carry a gun, exactly the same as an HCP holder, that just shot and killed a homeowner in his own home. If this was an HCP holder the PD would likely be releasing what happened.

I don’t know what the procedure is in Texas, but where I was if a person just killed another person; they would be detained and taken in for interview. If they invoked Miranda and there was probable cause for an arrest; they would be arrested and incarcerated until they could go before a Judge.  That is not what happened here; it appears they are treating her as if she was in an Officer involved shooting. That absolutely would be treated differently.

There have been several shootings that I can recall reading about where someone entered the wrong house thinking it is theirs. Usually the intruder is the one that gets shot and usually the intruder is drunk.

Was she drunk? We have no idea, but blood was drawn. They keep saying she had finished her shift and was returning home. I haven’t seen anywhere that says how long it was from the time she got off to the time of the shooting. Apparently she was in uniform? (I thought I read that somewhere)

Did something happen that justified the use of deadly force? We have no idea. Is that what she is saying? Well, we have no idea what she is saying; if anything. If she is saying that it should be made public.

The race accusations are already cranking up. Is there someone saying something that would make us think race played a part in this?

Three days for the DA to file charges. That’s reasonable and it shows they have investigated enough to make a case.

It a Police shooting or it’s not. It obviously isn’t so information should be released to try to calm the city.

[bersaguy]

9 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

This is terrible for all involved.

This is a case where intelligent discussion can be had about the public perceptions of the Police.

I’m not one to jump to conclusions about anyone’s shootings, cops or not, until we know the facts. We don’t have the facts and probably won’t for a very long time.

That’s the first problem. Dallas PD quickly backed off this saying it was not an Officer involved shooting. They handed it off to the Texas Rangers. So that means this was a citizen who is legally allowed to carry a gun, exactly the same as an HCP holder, that just shot and killed a homeowner in his own home. If this was an HCP holder the PD would likely be releasing what happened.

I don’t know what the procedure is in Texas, but where I was if a person just killed another person; they would be detained and taken in for interview. If they invoked Miranda and there was probable cause for an arrest; they would be arrested and incarcerated until they could go before a Judge.  That is not what happened here; it appears they are treating her as if she was in an Officer involved shooting. That absolutely would be treated differently.

There have been several shootings that I can recall reading about where someone entered the wrong house thinking it is theirs. Usually the intruder is the one that gets shot and usually the intruder is drunk.

Was she drunk? We have no idea, but blood was drawn. They keep saying she had finished her shift and was returning home. I haven’t seen anywhere that says how long it was from the time she got off to the time of the shooting. Apparently she was in uniform? (I thought I read that somewhere)

Did something happen that justified the use of deadly force? We have no idea. Is that what she is saying? Well, we have no idea what she is saying; if anything. If she is saying that it should be made public.

The race accusations are already cranking up. Is there someone saying something that would make us think race played a part in this?

Three days for the DA to file charges. That’s reasonable and it shows they have investigated enough to make a case.

It a Police shooting or it’s not. It obviously isn’t so information should be released to try to calm the city.

As best I can tell it was an off duty Dallas Police officer involved in a bad shoot and that is why Texas Rangers were called in to take over the investigation.

[Erik88]

4 hours ago, GlockSpock said:

A lot of these apartment complexes are built 100% exactly the same floor by floor. If the officer was busy (talking on the phone, talking to a friend, texting, reading something, etc), and accidentally got off the wrong elevator floor or walked too few or too many staircases, it's possible she was on a floor that looked exactly like hers but was +1 or -1. The same room +1 or -1 floor would look exactly the same. Without paying specific attention to the room number, she had every reason to think the room was hers. The "key not working" coupled with the fact that someone opened the door that she did not recognize would reinforce the feelings that someone had tampered with her door and gained access (as in, got inside and either purposefully or accidentally disabled the keyhole). It's possible that inside the apartment the walls/entry way would be uniform, so it may not have stood out that it "wasn't her apartment". 

I'm sure this is exactly the argument her lawyers will make. 

[GlockSpock]

1 minute ago, Erik88 said:

I'm sure this is exactly the argument her lawyers will make. 

It sucks. Because seemingly she herself wasn't up to "mischief", rather just made a poor judgement call and decision. Someone lost their life because of that. I'm not saying she should go free; Actions have consequences.

I am also saying, it if you picked 100 random TGO members and put them in the "same situation" (on an apartment floor that looks just like yours, but it isn't) coupled with a door and surroundings that match your floor, I feel, like it would be a non-zero number regarding the number of members who would react somewhat in a similar manner as she did when someone you don't recognize opens the door to the apartment you are confident is yours.

 

[DaveTN]

Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions about information not being released. Is there a story somewhere about her key not working and someone opening the door to her?

[GlockSpock]

1 minute ago, DaveTN said:

Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions about information not being released. Is there a story somewhere about her key not working and someone opening the door to her?

I think so. I haven't read that in an official manner. I picked that up from...this thread.

It might not have happened that way.

[Erik88]

2 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

It sucks. Because seemingly she herself wasn't up to "mischief", rather just made a poor judgement call and decision. Someone lost their life because of that. I'm not saying she should go free; Actions have consequences.

I am also saying, it if you picked 100 random TGO members and put them in the "same situation" (on an apartment floor that looks just like yours, but it isn't) coupled with a door and surroundings that match your floor, I feel, like it would be a non-zero number regarding the number of members who would react somewhat in a similar manner as she did when someone you don't recognize opens the door to the apartment you are confident is yours.

 

Oh I agree. It's a horrible situation. I'm sure she truly believed this guy was in her apartment. I wonder if she still had a bodycam and if it was on. I'd like to know what happened once the door was opened. 

[Erik88]

32 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

I think so. I haven't read that in an official manner. I picked that up from...this thread.

It might not have happened that way.

Edit-that info was wrong. New info is out.

"The official, who spoke to the Dallas Morning News on condition of anonymity, said Officer Amber Guyger had just ended a 15-hour shift when she parked on the fourth level of the South Side Flats garage Thursday night. She normally parked on the third level.

The officials said Guyger, a four-year veteran of the force, then went to the door she thought was hers but was one floor too high. Guyger didn’t notice that Jean's door had a red doormat, the official said told the Morning News.

Guyger put her key in the unlocked door and it opened, the official said. The official said Guyer told investigators she entered the dark apartment, saw someone inside and thought it was a burglary. Guyger said she pulled her gun and fired twice, the officials said."

It's interesting that they mention the door mat as that was something I was wondering about as well. 15 hours is a long shift. I'm sure exhaustion played a role here. 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/09/10/amber-guyger-dallas-officer-burglar/1254789002/

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Erik88

[Chucktshoes]

This is a really  situation. I don’t see her being a cop as relevant, but that and race are sadly being made an issue. From the information provided I think the DA charged her appropriately. 

[E4 No More]

I'm sorry, but when I lived in an apartment my key did not open the neighbor's apartment. Sump'n ain't right here.

[monkeylizard]

18 minutes ago, SWJewellTN said:

I'm sorry, but when I lived in an apartment my key did not open the neighbor's apartment. Sump'n ain't right here.

I don't think it was about her key opening his apartment. A report I read stated she was fumbling with the lock (because her key wouldn't open the lock) and he opened the door from the inside. That's when she shot him.

[Erik88]

6 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

I don't think it was about her key opening his apartment. A report I read stated she was fumbling with the lock (because her key wouldn't open the lock) and he opened the door from the inside. That's when she shot him.

That was apparently wrong info. Here is what I posted above "Guyger put her key in the unlocked door and it opened, the official said"

[tacops]

Since there is currently no information available other than the occurrence, one was black and one was a cop...I have no opinion beyond it is most unfortunate and my sympathy goes to the families.