Springfield 1911 G.I.

[towerclimber37]

Is this gun worth buying???? I see them being sold for $500.00 and below. Where on earth do you come across a deal like this in middle TN?

I been recently trying to off my glock 17 to purchase a beretta 92fs. Mainly because I really like the beretta. I've shot one numerous times and most importantly I feel more comfortable with the beretta over the glock.

Now I have always wanted a 1911, but have never shot one. I have a S&W compact 45. Its not exactly the easiest gun to shoot, but it makes me feel a little bit safer at night. Alot of people say the 1911 is the best handgun around, but alot of people said that about the glock. Unfortunately I'm not too happy with my glock.

So what do you guys think. I guess I'm just trying to figure out what everyone thinks about the 3 different guns listed above, and make the right choice. I value any and all opinions, I am still very new to these forums so I thank you ahead of time.

Lets see...I would ditch the glock (safe action is a misnomer in my opinion) and I would get a 1911 style.

I carry a springfield EMP myself, but my wife owns a couple .45 pistols.

I will caution you on one thing though..

Different pistols require a different manual of arms. IOW, you need to do things differently with a different style pistol.

Beretta 92's? double action.

1911? SINGLE action, but much safer, in my opinion. why? because they have 4 mechanical and 1 meat safety.

the beretta only has 3.

a 1911 usually has a crisper trigger..and is much simpler...plus, there are parts for them everywhere and they're generally cheap!...you can build it the way you want it if it doesn't suit you out of the box.

RIA's are good pistols...I'm looking for a 3.5 inch tactical myself right now.

]

[BimmerFreak]

It was nice meeting you today. Hope you enjoy your Springfield 1911

[R1100R]

Well which Springfield?

[BimmerFreak]

After looking at nice Beretta 92s and Rock Islands, we settled on a nice stainless steel Springfield GI

[Guest CK1]

After looking at nice Beretta 92s and Rock Islands, we settled on a nice stainless steel Springfield GI

hmmm, just saw this... doesn't a new 3rd gen G17 cost more new than either of those two... and still considered top tier in it's class while the other two are certainly not?

at any rate, hope he's happy with the new 1911, springfields are nice guns... but to be fair, just hope you explained that it's got half the capacity of either the glock or beretta, and may likely be half as reliable too... and for someone concerned about cost, the new pet costs twice as much to feed. i would have sold him a bunch of 9mm and told him to come back in a few days if he still wanted to...

that said, not trying to be a jerk, if you just gotta have a 1911...

Edited January 28, 2009 by CK1

[BimmerFreak]

hmmm, just saw this... correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't a new 3rd gen G17 cost more new than either of those two... and still considered top tier in it's class while the other two are certainly not?

at any rate, hope he's happy with the new 1911, springfields are nice guns... but to be fair, just hope you explained that it's got half the capacity of either the glock or beretta, and may likely be half as reliable too... and for someone concerned about cost, the new pet costs twice as much to feed. i would have sold him a bunch of 9mm and told him to come back in a few days if he still wanted to...

that said, if you just gotta have a 1911...

You are wrong.

The Glock is cheaper than both.

Furthermore, the OP wanted to trade a Glock for a Beretta or a 1911.

Thats his decision to make.

I was able to trade him a nice used stainless SA for his used Glock for zero dollars.

I guess when you own a gunshop, you can send people away with boxes of 9mm ammo, but until then, I will do my best to satisfy the needs of my customers, regardless of personal opinion or bias.

[R1100R]

Well said!! Werd!

[towerclimber37]

Edited January 28, 2009 by towerclimber37

[frankmako]

springfield makes a good 1911 gun. just about any 1911 brand will be good. hard not to go wrong with a 1911 type gun. have you looked at the glocks in 45 acp?? the glock 36 is a good carry gun.

[Guest CK1]

sorry, didn't mean to upset you, my mistake.

[BimmerFreak]

sorry, didn't mean to upset you, my mistake.

Not upset all my friend.

Your post was filled with incorrect assumptions (you asked to be corrected, which I did) and suggestions and opinions of what you would have done.

Bottomline; I listened to my customer, identified his needs, presented around 8 different options, and finally made him a very fair deal.

(I will actually end up selling the used Glock for less than I was going to sell the used 1911 for, but hey; I hope we made a new friend today:) )

I am pretty confidant that we provided quality service, options, and pricing so your comments of what "you would have done" should really be saved for when you are running your own shop.

[poak]

Not to get too off subject, but since when has the 92FS been considered a bottom tier weapon?

Furthermore... how much is a SA Stainless GI running down at Hero-Gear these days?

[towerclimber37]

CK, that's one of the biggest reasons that Joe is such a great guy to buy a firearm from..he doesn't put any bias on a firearm..I wish there were more shops like his!

you like glocks? well and good.

me? I think the only thing a glock "safe action my a$$" pistol is good for is to shoot yourself in the foot with, when you pull it from your plastic, serpa holster.

the 1911 has 7 rounds...you don't need that many rounds when a. they're the size of a trash can and b. you can actually shoot.

the glock has 1 mechanical safety and one meat safety..the meat safety malfunctions ALL the time.

the 1911? 4 mechanical safeties and one meat safety..yet to shoot you need only flip on lever and pull one trigger...oh..and nobody shoots themselves with 1911's unless they mean to.

I myself carry an EMP..in 9mm. it has 9 rounds. that's 6 rounds more than I need..but hey..I'm a careful guy and always have a plan b.

I think the G stands for "gee, I wish I were as good as a 1911!"

:D

[jay1313g]

Not upset all my friend.

Your post was filled with incorrect assumptions (you asked to be corrected, which I did) and suggestions and opinions of what you would have done.

Bottomline; I listened to my customer, identified his needs, presented around 8 different options, and finally made him a very fair deal.

(I will actually end up selling the used Glock for less than I was going to sell the used 1911 for, but hey; I hope we made a new friend today:) )

I am pretty confidant that we provided quality service, options, and pricing so your comments of what "you would have done" should really be saved for when you are running your own shop.

Well said Joe!!!!!

When will you be opening up a branch around Memphis? You would have Guns & Ammo out of business in no time!

[BimmerFreak]

Well said Joe!!!!!

When will you be opening up a branch around Memphis? You would have Guns & Ammo out of business in no time!

We are really working on building a stronger presence in Middle TN, but you never know what the future may bring.

I just hired two outstanding people which will play a key role in our operation, and should have their bio up on our website in the next week or so.

[Guest Rainmaker]

To the original topic; I'm sorry I gotta be the dissenting voice here. My first pistol was the bottom rung springfield GI, parkerized. It was new and the barrel wiggled in the slide. I had the four inch barrel, and it wasn't made to have a barrel bushing. I suppose it might've been that the gun was new, or that I needed to fire more rounds out of it, I was a crappy shot, etc., but the thing could barely hit a door at ten paces. Horrible, horrible spread. I love all my guns but I ended up trading that one in. Since I bought it for 400, and with mahoneys selling Springfield XDs for 460, I just couldn't justify getting another cheap .45. I now have an XD, and it's shot tighter groups than everything except my grandpa's 357 highway patrol. The guts of it are basically 1911 anyway, except it's striker fired.

[Steelharp]

I myself carry an EMP..in 9mm. it has 9 rounds. that's 6 rounds more than I need..but hey..I'm a careful guy and always have a plan b.

Tower, with all due respect... a gentleman whose daughter used to babysit my kids worked moonlighting at one of the Mapco type places here. He took 8 rounds of .45, at point blank, and still beat the robber to death with a baseball bat.

I've seen the scars myself.

You may have about 6 rounds less than you need.

[towerclimber37]

To the original topic; I'm sorry I gotta be the dissenting voice here. My first pistol was the bottom rung springfield GI, parkerized. It was new and the barrel wiggled in the slide. I had the four inch barrel, and it wasn't made to have a barrel bushing. I suppose it might've been that the gun was new, or that I needed to fire more rounds out of it, I was a crappy shot, etc., but the thing could barely hit a door at ten paces. Horrible, horrible spread. I love all my guns but I ended up trading that one in. Since I bought it for 400, and with mahoneys selling Springfield XDs for 460, I just couldn't justify getting another cheap .45. I now have an XD, and it's shot tighter groups than everything except my grandpa's 357 highway patrol. The guts of it are basically 1911 anyway, except it's striker fired.

heh..that's not a browning design then.

but...I'm thinking it was you...

read and be illuminated!

As translated from the original ancient manuscripts by Fr. Frog.

© copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer

1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain."

2 "And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. a

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.

9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation b by the followers of John.

a Several old manuscripts add the following text. "And they [also rendered as "these men"] didst chamber it for cartridges who's calibers startith with numbers less than the Holy Number 4. And lo the Lord did cause great grief amongst these men when their enemies who were struck in battle with these lesser numbers didst not fall but did continue to cause great harm."

b or Hell

© copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer

For the faithful, the "feast day" of St. John Moses Browning is January 23.

While the above was intended to be (slightly) humorous it really is the truth. Old John Browning really knew his stuff and his tolerances and his selection of various alloys for specific parts were well thought out. Nowadays, the use of a plethora of itsy-bitsy pins and springs in the design, and use of metal injection molding (MIM) parts is rampant. While they can be very rugged, the quality of MIM parts depends on how much care is utilized in their manufacture, something that is not often up to snuff, and their hardness is usually just on the surface. Smoothing the parts can frequently cut through the surface hardness. In addition many "modern" designs can not be completely stripped down to their component parts except by a gunsmith with special tools or training.

In the name of "super accuracy," many of the modern variations and custom pistols are made way too tight especially in the slide to frame and bushing to frame fit and many custom barrels have very tight chambers. (One big name 'smith is notorious for guns so tight that on new pistols the slides stick when manually cycled until they have worn in.) A tight slide to frame fit really isn't needed for accuracy. As long as the barrel to slide lock-up is consistent the pistol will shoot where it is pointed and shoot small groups. However, if tested in a Ransom rest which mechanically holds the pistol by the frame, they don't appear to group well since the slide is not held consistently in the same place on the frame. However, when held in the hand and sighted they group just fine.

Speaking of grouping, unless you are a national championship level bullseye shooter trying to eke out the very last decimal point in group size you don't need a tight chamber and overly tight tolerances. The same goes for the barrel bushing. Having it fitted to the slide so tightly that it requires a major effort and special tools to remove accomplishes nothing that can't be done with a fit that can be removed by hand or in the worst case by using a magazine base plate for leverage.

Even a "rack" grade GI pistol will out shoot all but the best marksmen. As a case in point back in the mid-70s Tom Campbell, then of S&W, came to my club and shot an IPSC match using a non-selected, loose, GI 1911 (not an A1) with issue sights. He easily won the match by about 15 points shooting against folks with expensive custom pistols. It's the shooter, not the gun!

[towerclimber37]

Tower, with all due respect... a gentleman whose daughter used to babysit my kids worked moonlighting at one of the Mapco type places here. He took 8 rounds of .45, at point blank, and still beat the robber to death with a baseball bat.

I've seen the scars myself.

You may have about 6 rounds less than you need.

I promise you..If I shoot someone 2 times in the heart and once in the eyeball so as to make a canoe out of his head, and he still whups me? then I think it's more providence than anything.

[Guest thejlb]

Sorry hero gear, but I did not end up with the springfield. I did not pass my background check. Man I really appreciate the hospitality though. Hopefully the problem will be resolved and I'll pass it next time. I look forward to many many more trips there. I wish more gun stores were like that. I walked in and they made me feel confortable the entire time. So thank you and thank everyone up there.

[BimmerFreak]

Sorry hero gear, but I did not end up with the springfield. I did not pass my background check. Man I really appreciate the hospitality though. Hopefully the problem will be resolved and I'll pass it next time. I look forward to many many more trips there. I wish more gun stores were like that. I walked in and they made me feel confortable the entire time. So thank you and thank everyone up there.

Yeah, I found out late last night that you were pending appeal.

Once we had finalized the deal, I left the 4473 and paperwork up to Dan, and assumed you had left with the GI.

We have the gun on hold for you, so soon as the appeal comes back, we can finalize the deal.

[The Average Joe]

Where are you guys finding them in middle Tennessee?

I got mine (in SS) at Franklin Gun Shop back a few years ago

My dad's been looking for a stainless steel one for the past 3 years.

I see the parkerized ones everywhere.

Am I just missing these things as they're going out the door?

[Guest thejlb]

Hero Gear is the best gun shop I had been too ever. Every gun I have ever wanted was there, and they were willing to make a good deal for me. I think there was a couple of stainless steel ones there. You should go check them out.

[csaxj3]

The Rock Islands are great guns. I have the 5in tac, and I have around 2k rounds through it no problems. Parts are as "drop in" as any other 1911, if you understand the irony.

I have checked them out a little bit. My only concern there is upgrading it and how compatible it is with all the parts available. Any good places to look for one of those guns??? Thats exactly the kind of 1911 i would want just a bare bones.

Thank you they are about a thirty minute drive from my house. Thats definately a place I want to visit. Do they give good trade in values there, Thats gonna be the key, as I would like to trade my g-17.

Anybody know anything about East side guns?