Shipping a handgun within the state?

[QuackerSmacker]

Read this and then please leave me alone, unless somehow you just can't:  

https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/222836508-Firearms-Shipping-Guide

 

[Grayfox54]

Good grief! What happened here?  My old thread got dredged back up and folks are fussin' at each other? 

For the record: the gun I was talking about turned out to not be the one I'm looking for. So I passed anyway, regardless of the shipping question.

Chill out folks.  

 

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, QuackerSmacker said:

Read this and then please leave me alone, unless somehow you just can't:  

https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/222836508-Firearms-Shipping-Guide

 

That’s meaningless. 

Here are the policies from UPS:

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/packaging-and-supplies/special-care-shipments/firearms.page

 

FedEx:

https://www.fedex.com/en-us/service-guide/terms/express-ground-samedaycity.html

Both specifically state that they will only ship firearms if a licensee is involved at one end or the other. 

DHL won’t ship between parties unless both are licensees.http://www.dhl-usa.com/content/dam/downloads/us/express/shipping/terms_and_conditions/prohibited_restricted_commodities.pdf

If you were shipped a handgun from a non-licensee and you are a non-licensee, and the common carrier was not notified, then federal law was broken in the process. 

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Chucktshoes

[QuackerSmacker]

f you were shipped a handgun from a non-licensee and you are a non-licensee, and the common carrier was not notified, then federal law was broken in the process. 

So you notify the common carrier, no federal law broken. 

Geez, this is NOT rocket science!

 

 

[Oh Shoot]

15 minutes ago, QuackerSmacker said:

f you were shipped a handgun from a non-licensee and you are a non-licensee, and the common carrier was not notified, then federal law was broken in the process. 

So you notify the common carrier, no federal law broken. 

Geez, this is NOT rocket science!

 

 

But if you notify the carrier (UPS or FedEx), they will NOT ship it.

No, it's not rocket science, but that's been the point you keep ignoring.

There is no legal way to ship a handgun between non-licensed individuals anymore. Or to yourself in care of another non-licensee.  And there wasn't 6 months ago either.

- OS

[Chucktshoes]

22 minutes ago, QuackerSmacker said:

f you were shipped a handgun from a non-licensee and you are a non-licensee, and the common carrier was not notified, then federal law was broken in the process. 

So you notify the common carrier, no federal law broken. 

Geez, this is NOT rocket science!

 

 

No it isn’t. Only one problem,  the common carriers all have policies prohibiting shipping between non-licensees. 

So, if the common carriers won’t ship between non-licensees when notified, and it’s a violation of federal law not to notify, how was the shipment legally made?

Edited August 26, 2018 by Chucktshoes

[Esko 270]

What a friendly bunch. 

[Mark A]

57 minutes ago, Esko 270 said:

What a friendly bunch. 

I haven't sensed any unfriendliness, just one guy (who is wrong) arguing against several people who are right. I didn't pile on because the info being provided was correct so I had nothing to add.

I will say that with the requirement to ship next day air it is sometimes cheaper to let 2 dealers ship it via USPS

[Esko 270]

25 minutes ago, Mark A said:

I haven't sensed any unfriendliness, just one guy (who is wrong) arguing against several people who are right. I didn't pile on because the info being provided was correct so I had nothing to add.

I will say that with the requirement to ship next day air it is sometimes cheaper to let 2 dealers ship it via USPS

[DaveTN]

On 8/24/2018 at 9:32 PM, QuackerSmacker said:

Wow, I'm  still stuck in ILLannoy for about 5 more weeks, but there is so much disinformation on this thread about TN gun transfer laws that it is almost comical.    YDWYHTD      

RIF

The question was about shipping a handgun.

But thanks for letting us know we don’t know what we are talking about. However…we are always willing to learn. This is all new to most of us. Your expertise on the law and your first hand experiences should help us all.

12 hours ago, QuackerSmacker said:

Not getting trolled into this one.

Really?

[Erik88]

8 hours ago, Mark A said:

I haven't sensed any unfriendliness, just one guy (who is wrong) arguing against several people who are right. I didn't pile on because the info being provided was correct so I had nothing to add.

I will say that with the requirement to ship next day air it is sometimes cheaper to let 2 dealers ship it via USPS

Not only is he wrong, and admitted to breaking the law, he's accusing those trying to explain it of being trolls. They have been very patient while trying to explain it and showing multiple sources of information. For his sake, I hope the ATF doesn't read this thread.

[peejman]

I suppose it's possible that he notified the carrier and the employee he dealt was unaware of the policy or chose  to ignore it, and falsified the documentation and shipped it anyway. In that case, its possible he might not be found at fault while the employee would be terminated and possibly criminally charged.

That's the only loophole I can think of. 

Edited August 26, 2018 by peejman

[Moped]

Actually, this has been a rather amusing topic and informative at the same time. Sometimes it's sorta fun to watch an individual beat themselves up against the brick wall of fact!

 

[QuackerSmacker]

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons

[Moped]

16 minutes ago, QuackerSmacker said:

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons

Oh, what the heck.  I'm bored, so I will enter the fray.  Yes the law says you can do it, if you tell the carrier that you are doing it, but...

10 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

That’s meaningless. 

Here are the policies from UPS:

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/packaging-and-supplies/special-care-shipments/firearms.page

 

FedEx:

https://www.fedex.com/en-us/service-guide/terms/express-ground-samedaycity.html

Both specifically state that they will only ship firearms if a licensee is involved at one end or the other. 

DHL won’t ship between parties unless both are licensees.http://www.dhl-usa.com/content/dam/downloads/us/express/shipping/terms_and_conditions/prohibited_restricted_commodities.pdf

If you were shipped a handgun from a non-licensee and you are a non-licensee, and the common carrier was not notified, then federal law was broken in the process. 

 

If the common carrier says they will not ship a handgun (or any firearm), between two unlicensed individuals, then you can't compel them do so (as stated above).  You can trick them into it, by not telling them that the shipment contains a firearm. But, has it's been pointed out, you have broken the law. and risk a prison term, separation from family, loss of income and loss of gun rights.  So why would any sane person want to do that?

[RED333]

[QuackerSmacker]

Nobody is advocating lying or breaking any laws.  The point is that ATF does not care about, or even have any authority over individual policies of the common carriers which may be more restrictive than what the law requires.   

Also, there was a lot of discussion this spring about both FedEx and UPS varying their supposedly ironclad policies on a customer by customer basis.  Their relationship with the NRA was probably the major focus of those discussions, though I believe there were something like 80 customers listed in one memo who were getting special treatment and/or pricing.  Needless to say, the carriers did not want this widely publicized.  

If you go to a carrier, disclose that you're shipping an unloaded handgun to a non-licensee in your own state, and they agree to ship it you have broken no laws.  They may have violated their own company policy about FFLs but no law was broken.    And yes, it happens all the time.   And if you go visit a few FedEx or UPS offices you will probably get a few different answers.

[LCPfraTN]

22 minutes ago, QuackerSmacker said:

Nobody is advocating lying or breaking any laws.  The point is that ATF does not care about, or even have any authority over individual policies of the common carriers which may be more restrictive than what the law requires.   

Also, there was a lot of discussion this spring about both FedEx and UPS varying their supposedly ironclad policies on a customer by customer basis.  Their relationship with the NRA was probably the major focus of those discussions, though I believe there were something like 80 customers listed in one memo who were getting special treatment and/or pricing.  Needless to say, the carriers did not want this widely publicized.  

If you go to a carrier, disclose that you're shipping an unloaded handgun to a non-licensee in your own state, and they agree to ship it you have broken no laws.  They may have violated their own company policy about FFLs but no law was broken.    And yes, it happens all the time.   And if you go visit a few FedEx or UPS offices you will probably get a few different answers.

You finally said something I can agree with, and is in line with what the others have been trying to tell you. Maybe this is what you meant to say from the get go, but it’s not what you were saying...thus all the push back. A few years ago it was much easier, but with the policy changes by UPS and FedEx, it’s much more difficult now. Of course many gun dealers have made it harder with their ridiculous transfer fees, but there are still quite a few FFL dealers that are fair with their fees and shipping costs if you look for them. 

[Mark A]

^^^^^^^^^^

me too...

[GlockSpock]

17 hours ago, QuackerSmacker said:

Read this and then please leave me alone, unless somehow you just can't:  

https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/222836508-Firearms-Shipping-Guide

 

Are the chips on your shoulder difficult to carry?

I suggest we respect existing members. Our Shoot is greatly considered one of the smarter members here. 

[Raoul]

Gunbroker contrdicts itself one paragraph below the quote

Any shipper who does not have an FFL is considered to be an unlicensed person. Unlicensed persons must ship modern firearms to a licensed FFL dealer only. If the buyer is not licensed, they will need to make arrangements to have the item shipped to a licensed FFL dealer in their state.

[MemHeli]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:06 PM, Esko 270 said:

What a friendly bunch. 

you should see how we treat the enemy!