SKS?

[Guest fastshotivy]

Why is it some dealer will sell you a SKS rifle as a C&R and some will not?

[Guest Fenris]

I am only guessing here, that if an SKS is modified from its original form, then it loses C&R status.

I also found this, but haven't read it thoroughly yet.

[Guest fastshotivy]

The one's I was talking about has not been modified.

[Guest bkelm18]

Yes, it depends if it has been modified or not. Not to mention its the dealer's discretion how he/she wishes to sell the item, they aren't obligated to sell it to you as a Curio/Relic.

[mousegunner]

The Yugo SKS is a "curio and relic." The Chinese Norinco is NOT.

[Guest fastshotivy]

The Yugo SKS is a "curio and relic." The Chinese Norinco is NOT.

Why is that?

[Guest gcrookston]

The Chinese SKS is considered by the ATF as modern manufacture. This dates back to the Clinton days when his executive order banned all weapons importation from China. Other country's SKS importations are expressly intended for C&R and are thusly sanctioned. for more detail on the convoluted politics of Chinese weapons, read here:

http://www.sff.net/people/sanders/sks3.html

[Guest fastshotivy]

Well I was going to work on one... Stock,scope,lazer,light,40 mag,tripod and what else I can do to it...

[Mike.357]

I have never heard much good about after market magazines for these things.

[mousegunner]

If you change anything on a YUGO, you have probably committed a Federal felony, and will be locked away forever. Fed gun laws are downright STUPID and irritating.

[Guest bkelm18]

If you change anything on a YUGO, you have probably committed a Federal felony, and will be locked away forever. Fed gun laws are downright STUPID and irritating.

How? Locked away forever? Not likely.

[Guest fastshotivy]

HAHHA real funny.....

[Guest Traumaslave]

Maybe I missed it but, what does C&R have to do with purchasing from a dealer? In transfer, it means nothing unless you have a C&R license.

[Guest Rando]

If you change anything on a YUGO, you have probably committed a Federal felony, and will be locked away forever. Fed gun laws are downright STUPID and irritating.

OOPS!:D

[Almond27]

I think he was kidding guys.

[mousegunner]

I copied this from the surplusrifleforum.com

I was being a little tongue in cheek. The way I read the stickies it is absolutely illegal to put a Tech Sight on a Yugo SKS. That is because it is only importable because it is C&R, and putting such a site on it would most assuredly take it out of as-issued condition. If that were the *only* change you made to the rifle, you would have committed a felony. However, if you were to take the exact same rifle, install the Tapco compliance kit plus muzzle brake -- and then put on the Tech Sights, it would be perfectly legal. I was being tongue-in-cheek because the law is stupid.

In fact, it could be persuasively argued that anyone who has created a 922r compliant gun went through steps to do so that involved the creation of several intermediate weapons -- each creation being good for 10 years in prison. So how many parts do you change to become compliant? 9? 10? So -- on the way to compliance, I've created 5 illegal weapons in that process. If, while in the middle of that process, the ATF walked in, I would be caught red-handed in the commission of a felony. Take off the bayonet -- felony. Remove the grenade launcher and put on the muzzle brake -- felony. Take off the stock and put on a new one -- felony. All the way up to the point that everything is in place. A person with a 922r compliant Yugo is carrying proof in his hands -- prima facie evidence -- of 5 counts of manufacturing an illegal weapon. 50 years in prison at least.

But let me take it a step further. You take your newly 922r compliant SKS to the range complete with its US-made 20-round removable magazine. You take the magazine out of the rifle. Guess what? At that point the majority of the rifle's content is foreign made and you are now in possession of an illegal gun and committing a felony. Provably so. If the ATF is there snapping pictures and catch you with the magazine out of the rifle -- you're toast. (I'm chuckling here because it IS technically true! Better get a U.S. made trigger group, because without it removing the magazine from your compliant rifle makes it illegal. Do you reckon a judge would consider a charge on that basis ludicrous? I'd hope so, but maybe not. I've been informed that judges use sentencing guidelines without regard to how stupid a law is.)

I knew of a fellow in Baltimore who had politically incorrect ideas. The content of the ideas isn't important. What is important is that his case confirms exactly what you are saying. They raided his house over a suspected (and nonexistent) gun crime. Couldn't find any evidence. But what they DID find was 12 pounds of gunpowder for reloading; which in his case exceeded that allowed under the local ordinance. (Local ordinance only allowed 10). As he and his wife both knew about the 12 pounds of gunpowder, and gunpowder is federally regulated, they charged him with federal conspiracy etc etc.

So I totally understand that if a person has already made himself a target of the federal government (whether he should actually BE a target or not is immaterial) that anything and everything that can be thrown at him will. Expired prescription in the medicine cabinet? 5 years for each one. Too much gunpowder not stored in a regulation magazine or stored out of accordance with local ordinances? Another 5 years. Put a tech site on your Yugo SKS without also doing the compliance kit? 10 years. Do a compliance kit but remove the magazine for storage? 10 years.

I know how this works. A friend of mine is an organic farmer who raises rabbits for meat. He happens to have politically incorrect opinions and made himself a very public nuisance to the status quo. He produced a how-to video showing how to kill, and prepare a rabbit. The feds got hold of it, sent it to the local constabulary, and he was charged with felonious animal cruelty. (The "secret indictment" described the rabbit as a "pet" even though it was livestock raised for meat; but by describing it as a pet that made the activity a felony.) No doubt, tens of thousands of dollars later he will beat the rap, but his life has been turned upside down. Sometimes, the point isn't even whether or not "they" will win in court, but to destroy lives and create a chilling effect. In essence, as they can't get around the first amendment and prosecute people directly for their opinions (yet), they will instead prosecute any out of millions of laws that are available.

So, unfortunately, I completely understand what you are saying. But I can also tell you this: if you've made yourself that big of a thorn in big brother's side; I sincerely doubt complying with 922r will be enough to keep you out of prison -- even if you've done nothing else that you know to be illegal. They WILL find something. There are millions of laws under which you can (and will) be prosecuted, at least 75% of which I am certain most people don't even know exist. They get around double-jeopardy restrictions by charging people with 5 different crimes for the same act. (Have you ever read an insecticide package that tells you it is a violation of federal law to use the product in any way inconsistent with the label? If you use it for another insect that is NOT specifically listed on the label, you are committing a felony. Did you use wasp spray on a spider? Tsk tsk! Felony. My point is if they want you that badly, they'll get you; so stop worrying.)

Obviously, being 922r compliant is to be preferred. It's always better to be compliant with the law. But nobody should be under the illusion that if the federal government REALLY wants to get them that compliance with every law imaginable would be sufficient. If my buddy hadn't made the rabbit video, they would have found something else. There are enough laws out there (especially tax laws) that most people in the country can be considered to be un-indicted felons. It's just a question of whether or not you get the feds mad at you.

So, yes, if someone has very public and very politically incorrect opinions, sends money to Al Queda or runs a child prostitution ring -- they'll get nailed. And it will be good to be 922r compliant as that will make the difference between getting out of jail in 225 years instead of 235.

I'm still chuckling. Don't consider anything I'm saying on this topic to be deadly serious, 'cause I'm not trying to be. It's hard to see me smiling through plaintext. I just think the whole thing is ridiculous.

The only way to be 100% certain of avoiding violation of gun laws is to sell all your guns -- and sell them to an FFL at that -- and give him all of your ammunition and everything else associated with firearms. Even better would be to turn them in at one of the gun buyback programs that promises non-prosecution. There are -- what -- over 40,000 gun laws on the books. Nobody knows them all. Many of them are obscure regulations, executive orders and the like. If you aren't going to give up your guns, then just do the best you can to comply with everything you know about.

But am I worried that big brother knows whether or not I buy ammo? No. I believe whatever big brother says I should believe.

[Mike.357]

nice post Marshall. I believe while speaking toongue in cheek what you say is very true. If the gov't wants to stick it to you they will stick it to you.

Wait til they check your couch and bedding for the little tags too. If you had old tags that do not mention the end consumer being able to remove them they will get you for another felony.

[Guest bkelm18]

Oh, 922r... right... That lovely little law that everyone worries about and the ATF doesn't enforce. If you are being charged with a 922r violation, chances are the gov't is already skull f*cking you because you have broken more serious laws and they just want to add some salt to the wound.

[bonzii34]

i hate to bring back an old outdated thread like i hate paying taxes but i had to tell mouse and bkelm i was rolling reading these posts! and btw ivy, did you ever get that C&R?

also if anyone gets mad at me opening an old posts, i did use the search feature and not ask a new question that was already answered. so like the government i know someone here will find something wrong with whatever i post but i could care less...

Edited December 14, 2010 by bonzii34
added more crap

[Randy L]

You can change parts out on a SKS just make sure they are us made parts TAPCO makes a US compliant kit, and it is up to the seller they are not required to accept a C and R FFL

[mousegunner]

No sweat. I forgot the whole thing!

[Guest Keinengel]

I have never heard much good about after market magazines for these things.

This Is true. I've owned 3 diferent SKS's (a Romy, a yugo and a Norinco) and I tried 4 diferent manufactured detachable magazines and they pretty much always screwed up in some way shape or form. Not to mention they arent really that easy to get in and out. Go with the factory 10 rounder and stripper clips. That will be a pain if you are using a scope instead of irons or a red dot but it beats jamming every 2-3 rounds.

[Guest RiseMechanical]

Thanks for the advice. I just picked up an Norinco SKS with some after market 30rd mags. I was sure the plastic ones weren't going to be great but was hoping the steel one would function well. I also planned to use a red dot scope on this rifle... Yeah me!

Does anyone sell factory 10rd and stripper clips locally in Knoxville?

Thanks

[Guest Keinengel]

I wouldn't know being a middle TN resident but I know they aren't hard to find online and shouldn't be expensive either.

[Bubbatn]

Does anyone sell factory 10rd and stripper clips locally in Knoxville?

Thanks

They sell them at the gun show(not sure when the next one is myself), your looking about .50 cents a piece. Not sure about local businesses.