Bank of Tennessee Posted

[Guest Hyaloid]

So, I notcied recently that my local (Jonesborough) branch of the Bank of Tennessee (BoT) has been posted. I usually go through the drive through, so it may have been for some time. I don't have a picture of the sign, but it is the "red circle slash" and states no firearms permited, or some such.

I am writing this from my home computer, so I don't have the e-mail I sent to their generic "contact us" e-mail. I'll post it Monday.

Long story short, the individual that I bank with there, e-mails me and asks to meet me for lunch to discuss the reasons for BoT's new policy. He related a story that in their Kingsport branch, a customer, and off-duty armed security guard (not for the bank) entered the buuilding talking on his phone with his wife. During the course of his phone conversation, apparently the individual became very loud and upset. At some point, this person apparently decided to unholster his weapon and began making animated gestures while arguing over the phone with his wife.

This incident made the tellers extremely uncomfortable, and I suppose the authorities were notified. BoT then decided to post all of their properties, of course except for LE (). This was an attempt, according to the nice fellow I had lunch with, to take the "decision making" of what is or isn't a threat off of the tellers. I guess the thinking goes, that if a person walked into a BoT OCing a firearm, or if their CC piece was inadvertantly exposed, the tellers will now automatically notify the authorities. The tellers no longer have to wonder, "Can he/she have that in here?".

Of course, this is an attempt to make them "feel" safer.

I presented my arguments as best I could. You know, criminals don't obey signs, you are limiting my ability to protect myself should someone decide to rob me or the bank while on their property, etc, etc. Interestingly, he did say at one point that the BoT has 'the responsibility to protect its employees and it's customers' while they are at the BoT. To which I responded, "Then if I am killed on your property, the BoT is ready to provide for my family, and face civil liability as well, since it is your responsibility to protect me, and you have removed the most efficient way for me to protect myself?". His response was along the lines of, 'well, I don't know about that, but this was the course of action we deicded upon...'

I also pointed out that there have never been any armed or unarmed security guards at the Jonesborough branch anytime I have ever done businesss there. So, I am not sure how a little ol' sign is going to "protect" me while I am there. but, I am sure glad the tellers "feel" better.

Overall, it was a nice lunch, and my contact there is a very nice man. I don't get the impression however, that they will be changing their policies anytime soon, but I sure tried! I invited him to go shooting with me too, but I don't think he will .

I came home and did a search for the incident he talked about, but I came up empty. Anyone have any information on this?

[jgrauman]

it is the "red circle slash" and states no firearms permited, or some such.

§ 39-17-1359 the sign must be very specifically stated in order for their policy to mean anything to you. "no firearms" and a slash through a gun means absolutely nothing to you as a leagally armed citizen. just because it's their policy does not mean it's the law. there is a post around here somewhere about our AG's interpretation of the signage law. i can't find it but i'm sure somebody knows where it is

edit: FOUND IT! read it, know it!! http://www.attorneygeneral.state.tn.us/op/2007/OP/OP43.pdf

[Guest Hyaloid]

§ 39-17-1359 the sign must be very specifically stated in order for their policy to mean anything to you. "no firearms" and a slash through a gun means absolutely nothing to you as a leagally armed citizen. just because it's their policy does not mean it's the law. there is a post around here somewhere about our AG's interpretation of the signage law. i can't find it but i'm sure somebody knows where it is

edit: FOUND IT! read it, know it!! http://www.attorneygeneral.state.tn.us/op/2007/OP/OP43.pdf

LOL... right, I even mentioned this (briefly) to the guy, then I thought "hey, why let them know that?".

However, I know the spirit of the sign, and still found it offensive that they would deny me the right to defend me and mine. Besides, I do open carry as well at times (let's not turn this thread into a debate about that), and while I wouldn't be breaking the law, according to their policy I would likely at a minimum have the authorities called in, who I am sure wouldn't be in a very good mood.

[Guest Hyaloid]

by the way, here's that opinion:

S T A T E O F T E N N E S S E E

OFFICE OF THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL

PO BOX 20207

NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE 37202

April 9, 2007

Opinion No. 07-43

Posting Notices that Handguns Are Not Permitted in Private Buildings

QUESTIONS

1.In order to prohibit handgun permit holders from carrying their handguns in a non-

governmental building, must the sign contain the exact language set forth in Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-

17-1359(a)?

2.May a property owner use the international circle and slash symbol in lieu of a sign

that uses the language prescribed by Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a)?

3.In a building with multiple businesses, does Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a)

require the posting of signs at every entrance to the entire building, or to each separate business that

elects to prohibit handguns if the entire building has not prohibited the possession of handguns on

the premises?

OPINIONS

1.No. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a) requires the posting of a notice which uses

language that is “substantially similar” to the language provided in the statute.

2.No. The international circle and slash symbol may not be used in lieu of a sign that

uses the language prescribed by Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a).

3.Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359 requires the posting of notices at the entrances of

each individual business that prohibits weapons on its property if possession of handguns has not

been prohibited on the entire property.

ANALYSIS

1.Owners of private property may prohibit the possession of handguns and other

weapons on their property. To be effective, the owner must post a written notice that satisfies the

requirements of Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a), which states, in pertinent part:Page 2

The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used

by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession

is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle

and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be

of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises

or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:

PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY

HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS

BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY

WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER

STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT

MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).

The primary objective of statutory construction is to give effect to the intent of the

legislature.

See Cronin v. Howe, 906 S.W.2d 910, 912 (Tenn. 1995). If the language of a statute is clear and

unambiguous, the legislative intent must be ascertained by the plain and ordinary meaning of the

statutory language used. See Carson Creek Vacation Resorts, Inc. v. State, Dep’t of Revenue, 865

S.W.2d 1, 2 (Tenn. 1993).

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a) is clear and unambiguous. By its terms, it does not require

word-for-word use of the statutory language. All that is required is that the notice uses language that

is substantially similar to the language provided in the statute.

2.Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a) also authorizes the use of the international circle

and slash symbol. The unambiguous language of the statute, however, states that the international

symbol may be used in addition to, not in lieu of, the written notice that is prescribed the statute.

3.Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a) also prescribes the requirement for the posting of

notices. It states, in relevant part:

Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances

primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings

where weapon possession is prohibited. If the possession of weapons is also

prohibited on the premises of the property as well as within the confines of a building

located on the property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that

are primarily used by persons entering the property.

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a).

Under the plain language of the statute, if the owner intends to prohibit the possession of

handguns or other weapons on the entire premises, the notice must be posted at each entrance to the

premises primarily used by persons entering the building, as well as any other prominent locationsPage 3

the owner may choose. If the owner intends to prohibit such possession only in certain parts of the

premises, the notices must be posted at the entrances primarily used by persons entering those parts

of the premises.

ROBERT E. COOPER, JR.

Attorney General

MICHAEL E. MOORE

Solicitor General

LIZABETH A. HALE

Assistant Attorney General

Requested by:

Honorable Matthew Hill

State Representative for the 7th Legislative District

107 War Memorial Building

Nashville, TN 37243

[Guest ETS_Inc]

Sounds to me like it's time to find another bank with whom to do business. And, when you go to withdraw your money, you should make it very obvious to your friend why you are doing it. Tell him that if he doesn't feel you can be trusted with your gun, then he can't be trusted with your money.

[Marswolf]

BOT has had those signs up for months.

Their policy is stupid. We need to find a better way to get the word out that no-carry policies are detrimental to public safety.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Sounds to me like it's time to find another bank with whom to do business. And, when you go to withdraw your money, you should make it very obvious to your friend why you are doing it. Tell him that if he doesn't feel you can be trusted with your gun, then he can't be trusted with your money.

Well, initially that's how I felt. But, it gets complicated, this fellow went to bat for me and lent a young professional the money to buy a practice, when most bigger banks wouldn't take that chance.

While I certainly do not want to support antigun organizations, I am not prepared to burn that bridge. I really think the policy stems from ignorance and political correctness. Will it ever change? I don't know. When I go for my next loan to build my own building, I certainly will make it known then... I'll have much more bargaining power with a large potential loan hanging in the balance, than I do now.

[Guest Hyaloid]

BOT has had those signs up for months.

Their policy is stupid. We need to find a better way to get the word out that no-carry policies are detrimental to public safety.

He said this incident happened about 6 months ago, but I cannot find any mention of it online.

[dralarms]

If my bank post then I'm outta there. I WILL find somewhere else that wants my business.

I have a card that I hand out when I come in contact with a "posted" business.

[Guest Boomhower]

I have a card that I hand out when I come in contact with a "posted" business.

That says what?

[dralarms]

Here you go

http://home.comcast.net/~9133sur/NoGuns-back.pdf

http://home.comcast.net/~9133sur/NoGuns-front.pdf

[TGO David]

So... one jackass with a gun ruins it for everyone who legally carried into this bank for God knows how long. That's the way I'm reading this. But that's usually the way it goes. :-\

[Guest Hyaloid]

So... one jackass with a gun ruins it for everyone who legally carried into this bank for God knows how long. That's the way I'm reading this. But that's usually the way it goes. :-\

Yup. I even drew the comparison of drunk drivers causing people to ban automobiles, and everyone else having to walk.

I am not the most eloquent person in the world, but I tried to present the best argument I could. I was assured that he would take my concerns to his superiors, and I think he will. I just don't expect anything to come of it unfortunately. He assured me he would follow up with me, and I'll post when and if he does.

It truly does suck. If I didn;t already have an established business relationship, I would likely just go elsewhere to do business. But, maybe with patience, they'll see the light. Time will tell.

I would encourage any BoT customers to contact their local branch and voice their displasure. Like I mentioned earlier, I will post the e-mail that I sent on Monday when I am at the office.

[Guest tjbert47]

I never do business with NO GUN SIGNS on the door. That includes gun stores or banks or ......... .

Tom in TN

[Guest Boomhower]

Here you go

http://home.comcast.net/~9133sur/NoGuns-back.pdf

http://home.comcast.net/~9133sur/NoGuns-front.pdf

Cool. Thanks. I'll have to save these and print some off when I get some new ink for my printer.

[TGO David]

I do business with a lot of places that say my gun isn't allowed. Not many of them have metal detectors at the door, however. It would be a cold day in hell before I went to the bank without being armed.

[dralarms]

Cool. Thanks. I'll have to save these and print some off when I get some new ink for my printer.

Your welcome,

Got them from TFA. I only print up 20 or 30 at a time that way they are always fresh looking.