How many is too many?

[JimmyJoe69]

The other day I found a pretty good deal on a tactical rifle. Upon emailing the seller, I found out that the rifle has had over 1,100 rounds fired through it. It seems that the seller was also a reloader and used the rifle to work up loads. So my question is.... when you guys are looking at purchasing a used rifle, what do you consider too many rounds to be. I understand that a rifle such as a 22LR (or even a AR-15) will have many more fired through it than most and I understand that how well the owner takes care of the weapon is a factor too. But I am specifically wondering about bolt action rifles, target rifles, etc. and how many is considered too many. Thanks.

[G27]

Kinda depends on the deal offered, doesn't it?

[DaveTN]

I found out that the rifle has had over 1,100 rounds fired through it.

The number of rounds they say has been fired really isn’t important if the bore looks good. I wouldn’t be worried about 1100 rounds in a rifle.

It seems that the seller was also a reloader and used the rifle to work up loads.

That would cause me to pass unless I was buying the gun real cheap, or I knew the reloader knew what he was doing.

[glockster157]

I have had several M1 Garands. Interesting thing about Garands is they are measured for wear at the breach and the muzzle. Rule of thumb is 1 point per 1000 rounds fired. My first gauged 2.0 at the breach and 1.5 at the muzzle. I could guestimate it had about 1500-2000 thru that barrel. Still shot very well.

I have been handloading since 1981. That really has no bearing on bore wear, in most cases, handloaders are going to take better care of their bores not worse. The cartridge itself is the main factor in barrel erosion. The term overbored is used to describe a large case with lots of powder behind a small-ish bullet. in other words, you have to push all that powder from the case down a small bore, i.e. throa wear/erosion. A 223 is much milder than a 220 swift. A 308 is very much milder that a large 30 cal magnum. Some of the worst offenders, 220 swift, 243, 25-06, 6.5 rem mag, not to mention monsters like the 30-378 Weatherby with is known to shoot itself out in 500 rounds.

My advice, go to the range with the guy and shoot some groups. Look thru the barrel caefully from the breach and see what the rifling looks like from that end. Should be sharp and crips. Most people are never going to shoot even a target rifle enough to shoot it out, some may shoot it enough to lose that extreme edge, .25" groups got to .5-.7" groups for example. Most 308 barrels are probably good for 5-6000 up tp 10 K rounds for GP shooting.

[I_Like_Pie]

I have seen guns with 500 rounds worn out from people cleaning it incorrectly...dented crowns, brush marks, not getting the lead out and shooting it (bulged barrels) rust from steel wool...etc. etc.

-but-

I have a Ruger MK II that has well over 50,000 rounds in it that could pass for new. Know of some boy scout guns with 200,000+ with nothing more than periodic tune ups.

The point is that there is no rule of thumb to use with respect to # of rounds fired and a worn out gun. Simply none. In some cases having 1,000 rounds through it actually proves that there are no problems from the factory..."broken in' per se.

Some calibers (just a couple) are prone to wearing out barrels...but this is simply because they are blasting bullets at 4,000+ fps. .22-250, .220 swift, hot .25-06. Most people don't shoot them enough to get close to that problem...

[I_Like_Pie]

That would cause me to pass unless I was buying the gun real cheap, or I knew the reloader knew what he was doing.

Working up loads is a normal part of reloading...simply means tuning to get best accuracy. Doesn't = hot rodding or abusing the gun at all.

Reloaders don't stay reloaders very long unless they know what they are doing. If he has been doing it for a while you have NOTHING to worry about.

[Fadex]

From what I have read, generally speaking, the higher pressure rounds will wear out a barrel much faster than a lower pressure round. That's why a .50 cal can be worn out after 1000-1500 and a .22 can go for 10,000+. With that said there are many variable that can influence barrel life. Proper cleaning, bullet type, and barrel temperature can all influence the life of the barrel.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

There are many factors to consider.. first.. you didn't say what the rifle is chambered in! If it is a .308, you can expect somewhere around 4000 to 5000 rounds before the barrel is toast. If it is a 300WM, you can expect about 1500 rounds and it is toast. 7mm Mag, 1200 rounds and it is toast.

One of the factors to barrel life is the "Overbore factor" http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/ here is a chart to see. It is the relationship of the powder capacity to the bore diameter that seems to determine "overbore".

Now the flash point is a factor too, some believe.. meaning.. is the flash point of a round inside the neck or outside the neck.. here as example, 6mm Rem v. .243, the 6mm Rem has a longer neck and is thought that becasue of this, it has a little better barrel life than the 243. In a competition rifle, basic barrel life a 243 is around 1200 rounds and it is time to put a new barrel on it.. 6mm Rem.. maybe 1500 rounds..

Another factor is the compisition of the barrel.. For instance, a Douglas SS barrel in .223 will have an average life of around 4500 to 5000 rounds before the barrel needs to be replaced.. but, a Krieger barrel will go another 2000 rounds beyond the Douglas.

Also, another factor in barrel life is how you shoot your rounds.. do you shoot a lot of rapid fire, one right after the other, or do you shoot controlled slow fire where there is some cooling time between shoots.. generally, it is thought that given one minute between shots will greatly extend a barrels life.

YMMV, but I do hope that this helps some.

[Guest gcrookston]

Ditto Froggy... Calibre and type of rifle? Type of ammo that was loaded for it?

Most reloaders I know start out of the low-end and work up. I'd not think twice about buying a rifle from any of my reloading friends as I know they work on the low end of the accepted pressures and shoot way slow, making all of those friggin' notes about each shot... On the other hand, if I didn't know them, I'd want to know what their reloading and shooting habits are before I considered the rifle.