Phoenix Arms PH22 (22LR Std Vel AMMO) as Kit (3 and 5 IN Barrel)

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

Disclaimer -- Much better information and reviews on U-Tube, but I will give you some INFO and My Opinion.  As far as I am concerned, a good buy and fun to mess with for a 22 target plinker.  And, if you wanted to pocket carry a 22 that is small size - you could. It is a bit heavy (like 24 OZ I think).  

The Story and INFO: 

We (son and I partnered ) and bought the Phoenix Kit for PH22A. Son (from GA) did not have a 22 to shoot when he goes to the range (doesn't shoot often as only has indoor range to go to and we all know that expense). So, I suggested he buy a 22 to shoot. Since he does not shoot much, we decided to share the gun (split the cost and he can loan it to me some times). I just wanted to try one and mess with it.  I ahve orther 22s to shoot when I go to the range and don't buy every gun I see or want to try. 

The Kit (delux) includes a lockable case, cleaning tools, a 3 and 5 inch barrel, and 2 MAGs (one short and one extended for pinky finger - both are 10 rounds).  He got it for $194 including Tax at GA Dealer in Cumming, GA. Bullseye Marksman. Apparently a FREE Background and has an Hour of FREE range time coming.  Son picked it up under his name at the Dealers store (dealer does not carry them in stock -- only online, but the dealer ordered it for him when he went to the store).  

I kind of wanted to try one after watching U-Tube. Generally, the U-Tube reviews for performance are good.  It's considered a cheap gun (check BUD's or other deals online). Some problems reported with frame cracks -- I suspect that due to people running High Velocity vs Standard Velocity. 

Others complain about some things: 

1) Safety has to be on to remove the MAG. That can be fixed, but it voids warranty if you should send it in with the modified part. Some buy an extra safety part and modify that one, keep the other to install if send gun back. (see U-Tube) 

2) The Safety has to be off (FIRE) and the MAG has to be inserted to rack the slide, but you can pull the slide back a fraction to check chamber with the MAG out. That can also be modified so you can rack the slide with the MAG out, and can be modified if done in certain ways to not modify the part. (see U-Tube)  

3) The slide does not Lock Back when MAG is empty. Need to keep count as not advised to Dry Fire this pistol. However, I called customer service to ask if could Dry Fire with the Hammer Lock Safety ON (has that safety also). Answer was -- they do not recommend any Dry Firing, but Dry Fire after last round should not affect the gun. HMMM !!!! Wonder how many times that dry Fire is allowed (kind of confusing in that you can, but you can't). Anyway, I try to keep count.   

4) Lifetime Warranty is for original owner only. 

5) One review someplace said -- they could not contact he dealer and did not get responses about a problem. Concerned about that -- I called before we bought.  The phone answered, told them my concerns about contacting them for warranty (she said, wel you reached us and we honor the warranty for original buyer - no modifications allowed. Very nice to talk with (maybe cause I was a potential customer?). Anyway, we bought it. 

6) Reinstalling the slide (recoil spring) can be a problem if not done properly. I speak from experience taking 30 minutes the first time. Then, I  read the manual and they tell you how (hold the spring in place with extra barrel, or with a MAG, or with your finger while you slide the slide back to Lock It with the Safety Switch placed to Fire. The spring is then coiled around the stud and will not come out as long as the slide is locked back.  

NOTE: By the way, to remove or install the barrel (or change the barrel, 3 or 5 inch if you have both, requires a removal and an install) is DONE WITH THE SLIDE LOCKED BACK.

NOTE: Also, when removing the slide which will be locked back when you remove a barrel (have to remove barrel before the slide),, BE CAREFUL when releasing the slide lock as it will be under spring force and the spring will fly out or bend. Hold finger or hand over the top of the spring area when slowly releasing the slide. (it slides FWD)  

LOT OF INFO There  for what it is worth. TOO much to read?

Now, my limited range experience which is 80 rounds the first time and 100 rounds the second time.

Mostly using Aquila Std Velocity (1135 FPS I think it was), and some CCI Std Velocity (1070 FPS). Phoenix Arms Manual recommends 1050 to 1170 FPS. 

NOTE: A problem with using Std Vel is that it generally costs more (like around $0.077 per round with tax) VS say $0.055 or less for Higher Velocity (got some HV on an Online Deal $0.04 per round tax and shipping included). That said, I recently bought some Aquila Std at Academy Online for final cost $0.054 per round by ordering 500 rounds to get FREE Shipping, TN Tax included (one day delivery)

RANGE Reliability -- One fail after fired the first round and none after. I had taken the gun apart and emory papered some contact areas and lubed it before shooting.

ACCURACY -- OK considering my shooting ability, maybe a bit low and to the left (inch or so) using 21 feet and 30 feet (mostly in a 4 inch target). I shot the 5 inch barrel at 20 and 30 feet with about the same spread. I shot the 3 inch barrel at 20 feet and about as good as the 5 inch barrel.

The sights are black and hard to see on a black target. I put a spot of white paint on the rear and front. The rear sight is adjusted-able for windage (I have not adjusted as did not have a small screw driver with me). The front sight has notches and any elevation adjustment needed is done by moving the front sight up or down (notches on front sight).  The white paint I put on the front sight was at the top notch and the bottom notch (kind of setting the sight between those marks).

Pictures if I could, but will not let me and I have not learned the procedure to use. 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by PAULSHOOT

[Ronald_55]

I picked one of these up as the range kit a couple years ago. Thought it was well worth what I paid. I have never had an issue with it jamming or anything. It reminds me of a James Bond gun with the short barrel installed. Lol

Stock pic shows both with long and with short barrel.

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

Cool.

I was coming on the web site to post the link to Phoenix Arms to show that picture since I am not able to post pictures.

 Don't have to now.   Thanks

Mine (should say son's) is the  black finish. We like the bright metal better, but the dealer did not have access to that one (I guess).  Son handled the deal in GA, I just chipped in on the price.

I did find a FORUM with some comments about the gun. Most were good, but two were bad and were the ones that said they could not get in touch with the company regarding warranty (one was a cracked frame).  That was in the 2010 time frame they posted that.

I have called twice (once before I bought, and another to ask a question about Dry Firing with Hammer Block safety on - Lady said NO DRY Firing, but accidentally doing it after the 10th round would not hurt). Anyway, I reached them both times and they seemed reasonable to talk too.

  

Edited June 23, 2018 by PAULSHOOT

[bersaguy]

I have carried a Phoenix in my pocket off and on for last 10 years. It is a bit heavy so have to wear a belt most times but I have taken it to the range probably 50 times and shot about every ammo I might have at the time and it eats it like a kid eating candy every time. I seldom put the target beyond the 12 foot distance assuming that would probably be the maximum range I would be shooting it if I had to. Mine is dead on every time. I have probably disassembled it probably 4 times in 10+ years to clean and lube and I am always pleased with the guns performance. If I ever run up on anther one for sale at a  fair price I will buy it.

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

Get a lot of good reports (as on U-Tube) along with somewhat criticism of the extra safety features (hammer lock, and can't rack slide with MAG out, and can't drop the MAG without putting safety to SAFE). Easy modifications to fix if you want to take a chance on the warranty restriction (no modifications). I guess there are ways to make the modifications and restore to original befoe turning gun on (don't know if issues develop over that).

I had a successful shoot SAT AM at an outdoor range (100 rounds total -- using both the 3 and 5 inch barrels at targets at  21 feet and 30 feet). Most shots  within a 4 inch circle  of Splatter Burst targets (good considering who was doing the shooting :-)). Might add not a lot of difference in the 3 and 5 inch barrels. 

I did run into some problems:

1) Slide at times (sometimes) resisted going back far enough to lock it (manually pushing slide back).  I mean it was like broke, kept trying and it would free up. Beats me except I am wondering if the recoil spring was failing to get onto the stud when moving the slide back. Maybe some coils off center or something at the end.

The recoil spring got bent (bent from being perfectly straight) during a take down one time when I did not adequately restrain the spring while releasing the slide.  Anyway, I was able to shoot with out any failures (well, a couple mess up on loading the first round of a fresh MAG). Broke it down at the range and here at home. Basically it mostly works as it should, I THINK. Does occasionally exhibit that same failure. I ordered new recoil spring (4 for $6 from Phoenix) along with another Extended MAG ($16) since I was ordering anyway. 

2) I have ran 280 rounds thru it with basically no failures. That said, nearly every time when I rack it to load the first round with a full MAG, the slide stays back when i release it. Then have to give it another jerk to get the slide to release and load a round.  I called Phoenix about that -- basically, it should not do that. They asked if I had lubed it -- answer is YES. I am hoping after more break in  that will go away. BY THE WAY, the slide does not do that on an empty MAG, not sure about a partially full MAG.    

3) I messed up (my bad) the rear sight wind age adjustment last night. Felt gun was shooting a hair to the left and decided to adjust the sight a fraction.  GROAN, did not read the manual where it says adjust CCW for shooting right (moves sight to the right). I figured I needed to move the sight to the right and would just turn the screw and see which way it moved. So, turned CW and apparently I did not wake up soon enough.  Don't know if I stripped a thread or what, but can't turn the screw CCW (IT IS STUCK).  Not like I forced the CW screwing, I just turned it  few clicks (say 1/2 turn or a bit more), but it is at extreme left now.  

I ordered a new sight, sight screw, and sight spring. Not that it will do any good unless I can get the screw out and have not stripped the threads in the slide. Only $2.00 something, so figured I would have on hand and since ordering the recoil springs and E MAG, might as well get the parts.    

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

Update on my last reply. 

Sight screw I thought I messed up came loose pretty easily with bigger screw driver (it is OK now, adjusts CW and CCW). 

The new recoil springs (5 for $6) came in - 1/2 inch longer than the old original one. I could not get it on the gun at first, thought they sent the wrong springs.  I sent an E Mail with pictures to Phoenix Arms.

AMAZING Response at 9AM (EST be 6AM CA Time).

Todd called and we discussed the problem. He said sent correct springs as the PH25 springs are colored and have higher tensile strength.  He suspected my old spring was just shorter as had been compressed for long time (don't know when gun was MFG, but we just bought it a few weeks ago - gave him SN as he requested, but failed to ask him MFG Date). .

He gave some suggestions about using finger to hold spring while pushing slide back. I had tried that with the old spring and had better luck using the 3 inch barrel to hold the spring while pushing the slide back.

Anyway, I worked at using a finger to hold the spring while getting the slide back   (I used Index and not the ring finger he suggested).  I had a heck of a time getting the spring in and slide back, but finally did.

I took to the range today to see if new spring solved the problem of slide not returning to breach when racking back with a full MAG. It's inconclusive at this time -- it did not work for first 80 rounds, several MAGs  (I always had to re-rack to get the slide to return on a full mag or one time on a partially full MAG). Then later I shot another 19 rounds and it worked both times with a new MAG. 

Other than that the gun ran OK - had one stove pipe and one fail to load a round. 

I also took his advice and lubricated (using their provided oil). I had used mostly gun grease before and some oil and it ran OK using my lube method. I had hoped lubing it more would help with the slide not releasing on a full MAG. 

  

 

[ken_mays]

My only experience with the Phoenix was about 10 years ago when someone brought me one to fix.  The hammer had worn a divot in the underside of the pot metal slide, and it was causing a noticeable hitch when the slide would move forward or back.   There wasn't much to be done about it aside from telling the owner to contact the factory for repair.  I never heard whether they replaced it or not. 

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

Gun belongs to my son in GA  (it is registered to him, but we shared price). I have had it almost since purchase, he has never shot it.  I did make a trip to GA to buy his old Lawnmower, and took the gun. He was busy we did not go shoot it despite his FREE Range Time that came with the purchase. I have not been back down to GA to return it. He is busy anyway and not missing it. 

All that is a good thing cause I have done a lot of shooting with it (estimate 500 rounds). 

Reliability is Dang Good for basically a $119 to $129 gun (3 inch model). Ours was the kit with 3 and 5 inch barrel, extra MAG, and a case with some cleaning supplies at around $200 with taxes.  

Not many fails to load or reject, nor fail to fire (not perfect, but not a nuisance either). My use is as a plinker and a target gun.

Still have the replacement recoil spring in it, I still get some Failures (say 40%) of the slide to return to Battery when racking to load first round. I just tap (push) the slide when it does that and it goes to Battery.   

I pretty much had the sight alignment figured out for the 3 inch barrel (no adjustment on elevation, you just have to move the front sight alignment up or down). I have not shot the 5 inch barrel as much, but did do better Thursday with the 5 inch (might have that alignment figured out also).

Had it to do over, might just buy the 3 inch model and an extra clip. That would be like $119 or $129 plus a Mag (like $18) = $137 (plus taxes, background and probably shipping on the extra MAG).  Not a lot cheaper than the deal we got on the Kit ($200 total out the door - think son did not get charged for background check with the dealer he used in GA).   

By The Way I shoot only Std Vel (as recommended less than 1150 FPS) ---  Acquilla 40 GR at 1135 FPS (Got 500 for like $0.055 per round and included Free Shipping and TN Sales Tax. Then just ordered another 500 last night on sale at $0.042 per round (includes Free Shipping and no Tax). 

 

[LCPfraTN]

I had one of these years ago. They are very reliable and shoot most any type of ammo. I got rid of it because I did get tired of all the safeties built into the design which are a pain in the ass. I’ve known some people that had frame crack issues along the slide area after many 1000s of rounds, but that’s not likely to ever be an issue for most folks. 

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

I have a feeling most frame cracks are due to folks shooting NON STD Velocity AMMO (STD VEL AMMO up to 1150 fps is recommended as only AMMO per the Manual). As far as the safety issues, two can be easily modified (could affect warranty if you send it in with modifications) and the hammer lock can be left off. 

MY REVIEW

My son (GA Resident) and I bought the PH22 together (shared cost) as a Kit for total of $200. The Kit includes the 5 inch barrel as extra and an extra extended MAG, plus the case which has a lock, also lock for the MAG, and some cleaning supplies (Typical run around $200 +/-).

He is official owner and so far I (TN Resident) have been the only user (borrowed it from him). I estimate shot 400 or 500 rounds (STD VELOCITY ONLY as recommended by Phoenix Arms Manual).

I find the gun to be reasonably reliable (especially for a low priced gun) with very few failures in use and reasonably accurate once you figure where to set the front sight (has windage adjustment but no elevation adjustment on rear sight). I marked front sight and very center of bottom of the 'U" of the rear sight with white paint (helps line up left and right).  

One problem that has been present since new is, rack the slide to load the first round and the slide stays back (say 50% of the time). Have to bump it FWD to close the slide. I have lubricated and emory papered any areas of friction. Still does it some, might have been a bit better when I put in a new recoil spring. 

The MAGS are a bit hard to load with no button on side to pull the spring down. Also, had one MAG that I could not load with more than 8 rounds. I finally noticed a slight dent in the back of the slide (one of the slots for seeing rounds had a slight dent inward and AMMO was catching on that). I managed to pull the dent out and worked OK afterwards.

Barrels are easy to exchange -- rack slide back  and lock it back. It is necessary to lock slide back to keep spring on the about 1/2 inch retention stud (otherwise it will fly out if not racked back and locked back). Then release the barrel retention slide and lift front of barrel up. Install new barrel in reverse, place end of barrel hook on the pin down in the frame, and push front of barrel down to latch it (actually, I like to push the little barrel release buttons FWD and push barrel down VS forcing it down onto the retainer slide).  

When removing the slide (barrel will be all ready removed) hold finger over spring when releasing the slide or the spring will fly away. Reassembly requires holding the spring down (FIRMLY) while racking the slide back and locking it back. Manual says use a barrel, or a MAG to hold spring down. I have done it using the 3 inch barrel laid flat side down on the spring, but  find it best to use my first finger (left hand) and then rack the slide back using thumb of left hand and right hand to pull it back. Some use the middle finger of left hand, various ways to do it. It does take some effort and can end up bending the spring.   

[graycrait]

I had one of these some years ago.  I used youtube to disable one or two of the safeties. Ran great.  I was impressed.  Some body was even more impressed with it and bought it off me.  I suggested to a big box store's corporate gun buyer that they should stock it and he looked at me like I had a 3rd eye.

Edited September 13, 2018 by graycrait

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

I returned the PH22 to my son (he is registered owner) and he shot it some (70 rounds or so) at an indoor range on the FREE hour he got for buying it Bulls Eye Marksman in Cumming, GA.

Just wanted to say -- I was in BUD's at Sevierville yesterday and saw a used one (all black like ours) with both barrels (3 and 5 inch) and an extra MAG for $149.  Don't know if it included the locking case  and cleaning supplies and MAG Lock. That would be about $173 out the door (tax and background check).  Looked like it had not been used much. 

My first thought was - I should buy that and have one of my own. 

It's not a bad deal and maybe they would take less.  However, the Kit we bought (case, lock, cleaning supplies, two barrels, and  extra MAG) for $188 new was OK. It ended up like $200 with tax and apparently they did not charge him a background check.

JUST SAYING in case anyone might be interested. I really don't need it as can shoot his some and have three 22s now. Still like having another even if it does not make sense.