You can't buy a handgun out of state...

[robin48]

Why the heck did he ship it overnight! He could have saved you a bunch of money.

Yeah, the gun laws are stupid to say the least. But you know those handguns have a way of committing crimes when they are away from home.

Legally handguns have to shipped overnight.

[Guest bkelm18]

Legally handguns have to shipped overnight.

Not FFL to FFL, as was the case.

[RoDan]

Here in Memphis we are right next to Mississippi. There's a radio show on a Memphis station where the hosts are always talking about a certain North MS gun store. It's paid advertising, of course, but rather than it being an actual commercial it's just the hosts talking about this place and how great it is. Nothing wrong with that, but just about every time I've heard one of the "ads" they talk about the store's handgun selection, and that people should go down there and get themselves a new Kel Tec or Glock or whatever. Everytime I hear that I think to myself, if that's a Memphis resident they're in for a rude awakening.

ah yes, Drake and Zeke. 98.1 the Max. Then they go off talking about going to the Liquor store next to Costco, and that it is not required to have a Costco membership to buy from them, it is a separate bitness and what not.

Edited January 26, 2009 by RoDan

[robin48]

Not FFL to FFL, as was the case.

I ship handguns everyday from FFL to FFL. Handguns are supposed to ship overnight. Oops I did some research and found that Fed-Ex and UPS require overnight, not the law. My mistake. Edited January 26, 2009 by robin48

[Reservoir Dog]

But for clarification, if a family member gives you a gun (I'm not talking about a straw sale, I'm talking about a legitimate gift), and they live in a different state, you do not need an FFL, correct?

If it's a handgun, legally it would need to go through a FFL.

Would not that apply to long guns, as well? The way I understand things, if there is an interstate transfer of any firearm, a FFL has to be involved.

[Fallguy]

Would not that apply to long guns, as well? The way I understand things, if there is an interstate transfer of any firearm, a FFL has to be involved.

Not if you buy a long gun in person from a FFL. Not really sure about gifts...

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Fallguy

[Reservoir Dog]

Not if you buy a long gun in person from a FFL. Not really sure about gifts...

Yeah, I was referring to the question about gifting.

[Fallguy]

Yeah, I was referring to the question about gifting.

Of course you can legally loan a firearm to someone from any state. Not sure what happens if they forget to ask it for it back or your forget to take it back....

[Ruprect]

Toss this one around:

What about trading firearms between two residents of different states?

[Guest bkelm18]

Toss this one around:

What about trading firearms between two residents of different states?

The law doesn't specify how the firearm was acquired, it just says a transfer, so the normal rules apply. Handguns would still have to go through a FFL.

[Reservoir Dog]

Toss this one around:

What about trading firearms between two residents of different states?

Yeah, you will need an FFL for that.

The way I read the law/regulations, is if you are acquiring a firearm in an interstate transaction, it must go through a FFL. This would apply to both handguns and long guns, regardless if it is a purchase, trade or gift.

[Fallguy]

Yeah, you will need an FFL for that.

The way I read the law/regulations, is if you are acquiring a firearm in an interstate transaction, it must go through a FFL. This would apply to both handguns and long guns, regardless if it is a purchase, trade or gift.

I believe that is right.

The reason I only mentioned handguns in the one post, was I was thinking back to a thread where we had already discussed a gift of a handgun between relatives in two states.

[Guest Fenris]

Thanks for the info. This has been a great discussion. My dad lives 1/2 mile from the Al/MS state line. My brother lives over in MS about 10 minutes away. I live here. We borrow guns from one another all the time depending on the season, purpose, etc.

This is good to know for future reference.

Question: Could my dad bring a handgun up when he visits and we go to an FFL in person to do the transfer?

[Guest betobeto]

Thanks for the info. This has been a great discussion. My dad lives 1/2 mile from the Al/MS state line. My brother lives over in MS about 10 minutes away. I live here. We borrow guns from one another all the time depending on the season, purpose, etc.

This is good to know for future reference.

Question: Could my dad bring a handgun up when he visits and we go to an FFL in person to do the transfer?

I thought a family "Gift" needs no FFL or paper work.

[Guest Fenris]

reread the whole thread. A few of us were misinformed.

With handguns, an FFL is required.

[Fallguy]

If I understand all of this right, here is my take.....

A private transfer (gift, trade or sell) of a firearm (handguns and long guns) between two residents of the same state does not require a FFL.

A private transfer (gift, trade or sell) of a firearm (handguns and long guns) between two residents of different states does require a FFL.

If you want to acquire (gift, trade or sell) a Handgun from an out of state source (Private or FFL) it must go though a FFL of your state of residence.

If you want to buy a Long gun from out of state, you can buy it directly from a FFL in the state you purchase it, but not from a private party.

[Reservoir Dog]

If I understand all of this right, here is my take.....

A private transfer (gift, trade or sell) of a firearm (handguns and long guns) between two residents of the same state does not require a FFL.

A private transfer (gift, trade or sell) of a firearm (handguns and long guns) between two residents of different states does require a FFL.

If you want to acquire (gift, trade or sell) a Handgun from an out of state source (Private or FFL) it must go though a FFL of your state of residence.

If you want to buy a Long gun from out of state, you can buy it directly from a FFL in the state you purchase it, but not from a private party.

This is my understanding, as well.

Well written.

[Mousegun]

Wow, I followed this post from the get go and am a bit surprised it took 5 pages for someone (Fall Guy) to finally lay it out clearly. This just shows how confusing and somewhat difficult the stupid gun laws can be.

I am researching the laws myself for a friend who is being gifted a gun from another state and would like to add even a bit more clarification to Fall Guy's good post.

*****I made additioal clarification changes in red and openly accept responses with any conflicts to what I added. This is the best interpretation I could come up with after research of many other sites and opinions from others. It is the sum of those opinions that said the same thing but IANAL applies throughout.*****

If I understand all of this right, here is my take.....

A private transfer (gift, trade, will or sell) of a firearm (handguns and long guns) between two residents of the same state does not require a FFL.

A private transfer (gift, trade or sell) of a firearm (handguns and long guns) between two residents of different states does require a FFL. Except if the firearm is gifted through a WILL to a person from another state. Then it can be legally transfered without an FFL

If you want to acquire (gift, trade or sell) a Handgun from an out of state source (Private or FFL) it must go though a FFL of your state of residence. Same as above when it is gifted via will.

If you want to buy a Long gun from out of state, you can buy it directly from a FFL in the state you purchase it, but not from a private party. You may be able to buy it through a private party if you and that person go to an FFL in the state you are purchasing the long gun from and have it legally transfered to you. Then you can transport it back to the state you live but only if the long gun is legal in the state you are going to (the state you live in).

Here is the law as written.

As taken from the NRA website.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=60

Acquiring Firearms

The following restrictions apply to firearms acquired through purchase, trade, receipt of gifts, or by other means.

From Dealers

Provided that federal law and the laws of both the dealer`s and purchaser`s states and localities are complied with:

• An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual`s state of residence
  
• An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed dealer in any state
  

It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm unless the federal firearms licensee receives notice of approval from a prescribed source approving the transfer.

Sale of a firearm by a federally licensed dealer must be documented by a federal form 4473, which identifies and includes other information about the purchaser, and records the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. Sales to an individual of multiple handguns within a five-day period require dealer notification to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Violations of dealer record keeping requirements are punishable by a penalty of up to $1000 and one year`s imprisonment.

Sales Between Individuals (but I am suer this also includes gifts)

An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest (inheritance) or intestate succession (?) are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence.

18 USC Sec. 922 01/03/2007

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I - CRIMES

CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS

-HEAD-

Sec. 922. Unlawful acts

-STATUTE-

(a) It shall be unlawful -

(1) for any person -

(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or

[...]

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest (will) of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession (?) of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and ( the loan or rental of firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

I don't fully understand what interstate succession means and I believe the term FIREARMS applies to long guns and pistols.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Mousegun

[Guest Fenris]

"INTESTATE SUCCESSION - refers to the law of the State providing for the inheritance of property from a person who dies without leaving a will. Thus, to carry out a "intestate succession" simply means to transfer something after the owner has died and in accordance with the State law of intestate succession."

From here

So, the way I read that is if it was not willed to you from a parent, for example, but you and your brothers and sisters decide how to divvy up the gun collection, you do not have to have them transferred via FFL.

[oldogy]

Excellent thread discussing the bureaucratic nightmare of laws. But I do have a question or two.

So I, with a TN HCP travel to a different state with X number of my sidearms in my possession, all legal and non registered and packed for legal transport. A relative and I have show and tell and throw a little lead, non sanctioned event, at his club. I return to TN with x+1 handguns. Again, all these handguns are unregistered, no paper trail as these guns were purchased before all the gun haters got their panties in a wad and passed a bunch of silly :screwy:laws that infringe. Who is to prove the +1 gun has not been in my possession all along? Anyone see a problem doing this? It could just happen.

Comments welcome.

ray, the oldogy

[Fallguy]

Excellent thread discussing the bureaucratic nightmare of laws. But I do have a question or two.

So I, with a TN HCP travel to a different state with X number of my sidearms in my possession, all legal and non registered and packed for legal transport. A relative and I have show and tell and throw a little lead, non sanctioned event, at his club. I return to TN with x+1 handguns. Again, all these handguns are unregistered, no paper trail as these guns were purchased before all the gun haters got their panties in a wad and passed a bunch of silly :screwy:laws that infringe. Who is to prove the +1 gun has not been in my possession all along? Anyone see a problem doing this? It could just happen.

Comments welcome.

ray, the oldogy

[Oh Shoot]

...Anyone see a problem doing this? It could just happen. Comments welcome...

I am not advocating violating any law, but in actual practice, of course you are exactly correct.

- OS

[Guest grimel]

Law states that handguns cannot be mailed except from dealer to dealer, which in this case would have been an option. Most dealers don't care to take the time to go to the PO and fill out the form, as UPS and FedEx will come to their shop and pick up. So it goes common carrier. And guess what rules common carriers apply to handguns? Overnight, or no go! Sucks, don't it?

Recently I've read that UPS will allow handguns no longer in production to be shipped 2nd day air, which is about 1/2 the price of overnight. Supposedly new handguns, still being produced, still have to go overnight. I've not been able to confirm this in writing however.

The dealer doesn't have to go to the PO and pick it up; they will deliver it just like UPS/Fed-Ex.

[Guest grimel]

Yep. Bought a Remington Rand 1911A1 in a shop in Norfolk before my last cruise. The dealer held it in his safe until I returned home, and then shipped to an FFL near my home. Added almost 100 to the price, all told, with the overnight shipping and the transfer fees.

If I had wanted (okay, who'm I kidding -- could have afforded) the belt-fed semi .30 browning he had, though, I could have walked out with it that day.

When did they stop considering active duty a legal resident of the state where they are stationed?

[wjh2657]

Why the heck did he ship it overnight! He could have saved you a bunch of money.

I recently tried to ship a handgun to a gunsmith via UPS (FEDEX and USPS will not accept handguns). They will only ship handguns overnight air . The most expensive is the only way they ship HGs. I was told it was due to too many handguns getting lost or "misplaced" through ground channels. I don't know truth to this, but that is why you have to pay top dollar for shipping your handgun.