The niche I wish manufacturers would find

[tntnixon]

It seems you have two choices in handguns  these days : “tacticool” weapons that are functional and practical for edc  or works of art that are generally destined to stay in the safe only to be brought out to show your buddies with white gloves on. In the modern world of alloys , I wish we could find something to bridge the gap. 

Being a smaller framed guy , I consider 20 oz-ish and about 1 inch width to be about perfect for carry . That leaves me with polymer pistols as my choice (don’t get me wrong , I love polymer for lots of reasons).  However , I’m one of those crazy guys that likes “pretty”. I like it in my house , my vehicles, my clothing , my women and yes, even my weapons. 

I like elegant firearms with elegant old world styling, beautiful high gloss metals and fine wooden grips . If I could find one that was reliable in a major defensive caliber, it would not be sitting in my safe but rather on my side or inside my waistband (in fine hand tooled leather , of course , rather than kydex ). 

I know this can be done (lots of manufacturers have used alloys to make very light metal firearms that are stronger and lighter than polymer ) but they won’t make anything that encompasses my wish list. I guess it’s likely financially without benefit. Maybe I’m just an odd shooter in my wants.

Edited April 21, 2018 by tntnixon

[DaveTN]

Smith & Wesson Model 60

.357 Mag, Satin stainless that can be polished to a mirror finish if you like, 21.4 Oz, many beautiful wood grips and leather holsters available.

Or the model 66 2.5” at 31.5 oz would be a contender if the weight didn’t bother you.

Or a 2.5” blue 19. Or a….

 

 

It will probably be awhile before a super light material that can handle a good defensive round is used. But you never know. However, a super lightweight gun shooting a good defensive round will have recoil issues.

 

[Whisper]

25 minutes ago, tntnixon said:

It seems you have two choices in handguns  these days : “tacticool” weapons that are functional and practical for edc  or works of art that are generally destined to stay in the safe only to be brought out to show your buddies with white gloves on.

Only two choices?  What about the large number of handguns that are suitable for plinking but not durable enough for serious use, and aren't works of art?

As for the 20-ounce limit, that will be tough or an all-metal gun, but there are the Kimber and Sig mini-1911s.  Also the aluminum J frames.  Hard to get more classic than a 1911 or an S&W revolver.

[tntnixon]

The kimbers and sigs are the closest things to my wants , available. My experience with the 1911 platform hasn’t always been stellar , though, as far as reliability goes. I’ve had more failures with that weapon than any other (well there was a Davis .25 somebody gave me once but it doesn’t count ) and I’ve owned several in many price ranges.
Im unlikely to carry a plinker to put my life behind.
Now for the j-frame . I have a couple and recently sold one. I usually refer to them as my “loud knives” cuz if you’re not close enough to stab , I’m probably not gonna be able to defend myself against you with one. They are generally unpleasant to fire , also , especially in a full .357 load.


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[tntnixon]

Smith & Wesson Model 60
.357 Mag, Satin stainless that can be polished to a mirror finish if you like, 21.4 Oz, many beautiful wood grips and leather holsters available.
Or the model 66 2.5” at 31.5 oz would be a contender if the weight didn’t bother you.
Or a 2.5” blue 19. Or a….
 
 
It will probably be awhile before a super light material that can handle a good defensive round is used. But you never know. However, a super lightweight gun shooting a good defensive round will have recoil issues.
 

Smith makes several revolvers in scandium that can handle a .357 load. Why couldn’t they handle .40 or 9mm or even .45?
As far as recoil goes , I’ve never had issues with that weight range. The “baby glocks” , shields , Xd-s, etc all fall within that category but they simply aren’t attractive firearms.


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[Murgatroy]

Kahr makes several guns that might fit your description.

 

[tntnixon]

Kahr makes several guns that might fit your description.
 

I’ve definitely looked at them , for sure, but I’ve never fired them. I have dry fired a couple. Are their triggers “tunable” or replaceable? It wasn’t my favorite feel.


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[DaveTN]

22 minutes ago, tntnixon said:

Smith makes several revolvers in scandium that can handle a .357 load. Why couldn’t they handle .40 or 9mm or even .45?
As far as recoil goes , I’ve never had issues with that weight range. The “baby glocks” , shields , Xd-s, etc all fall within that category but they simply aren’t attractive firearms.


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Scandium is a marketing tool more than anything. It’s aluminum with trace amounts of scandium added for strength. It could be used for guns in any of those calibers…aluminum is.

You haven’t had issues with your semi-autos in that weight range because they take up some of the recoil in the action. My Kahr MK40 or my Shield 40 doesn’t have the felt recoil of my .38 steel J-frames.

But as you see on here all the time, there are some folks that don’t like the recoil of a full size M&P or Glock in .40S&W Vs. the same thing in 9mm. So they certainly aren’t going to be able to deal with it in a compact; no matter what it’s made of, if it’s lightweight.

[tntnixon]

From a stylistic standpoint, some of my favorite weapons have been the Walther PPK, the Beretta’s, and the CZ’s. Unfortunately, those companies haven’t really made any weapons to fit my niche. Walter drives me crazy. They make a beautiful .380. Yet, when they make anything bigger they borrow their styling from Hi-Point. LOL


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[DaveTN]

You come up with what you specifically want. And we will all email the big boys and see if someone will make it. 

[tntnixon]

You come up with what you specifically want. And we will all email the big boys and see if someone will make it. 

I’m thoroughly aware that I’m screwed on this. Just a small rant after looking at some of my weapons and thinking “why can’t I make this one prettier, and this one lighter and this one more reliable and this one have better capacity and this one shoot better and this one more powerful ?” All of the weapons I own have a reason I own them . I simply wish I could combine the attributes of several into one. I know it’s possible from an engineering standpoint. Not sure it’s practical from a profit standpoint.


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[tntnixon]

How in the hell did I forget to mention the Browning hi power as a weapon I love?


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[n0rlf]

Remember though that just because you want something in a gun does not mean others do. The manufacturers do market research and apparently they believe their offerings are what most want. 

That is why the custom world exists. But that is an expensive road. 

I summarize though as I have short arms and finding long guns to fit is difficult at best. Same with cars or trucks. Most people can operate controls that I have to reach for. 

Try finding shirts that for without the sleeves being 3 or 4 inches too long. 

I feel your pain sir. 

[DaveTN]

16 minutes ago, tntnixon said:

How in the hell did I forget to mention the Browning hi power as a weapon I love?

Because the price of the beautiful Belgium blued ones is crazy and for some reason people are pricing the ones made in recent years the same way. I had a Belgium Browning Hi-Power that has a fantastic high gloss blue. I sold it around 1980; what a mistake.

[tntnixon]

Because the price of the beautiful Belgium blued ones is crazy and for some reason people are pricing the ones made in recent years the same way. I had a Belgium Browning Hi-Power that has a fantastic high gloss blue. I sold it around 1980; what a mistake.

I lust after high gloss “old school” bluing . I can’t even find a custom refinisher who’ll even do it , now. They can cerakote or “name your spray on finish” in matte so much quicker and easier , that they won’t even take the time , at any price , to replicate what used to be the norm .


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[gregintenn]

Let's start here. What do you dislike about a Colt Lightweight Officer's Model 1911?

[tntnixon]

10 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Let's start here. What do you dislike about a Colt Lightweight Officer's Model 1911?

I’ve owned two of them: a Colt defender and a springer ( I’ve had other manufacturers in govt and commander size). My dislike was solely the puckered butthole every time they would stovepipe. When I go to the range , I very rarely run fewer than 200 rounds through a pistol. Im dumb enough to expect zero failures. I’ve never had a 1911 that would pass this test. Trips back to the manufacturer , money spent at the smith for polishing and deburring , lots of money spent on new and improved mags, and even changed manufacturers (from colt to Springfield). A failure makes me put a weapon in a safe and not put back on my person. I guess I’m just chickensh&$ like that .


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Edited April 21, 2018 by tntnixon

[gregintenn]

I assume you are dead set on a new one, as many are, but have you considered trying a vintage Colt instead?

[1gewehr]

I carried a Star PD in .45acp for over 20 years.  Small, light, strong half-cock if you care, large safety if you're inclined that way.  Always reliable.  Other folks had problems when they let the little nylon buffer break down as the alloy frame would crack after 500-1000 rds with no buffer.  I swapped my buffer out every 500 rds and put many, many rounds through it with no sign of cracking.

Another choice would be the Star BM or BKS in 9mm.  The BM has a steel frame and the BKS is alloy.  The BM is a bargain these days as many surplus ones are on the market.

Star also made the Firestar in 9mm, 40, and 45.  Not light, but very compact and solid steel!

In a .380, the excellent Remington 51 is extremely thin and light for solid steel.  That's the original Remington 51, not the worthless newer one.  Walther PPk is light and small, but can be finicky about ammo.  The Beretta 1934 is also thin and small.  It likes a strong load, but make sure the springs are in good shape.

Other thin, but powerful guns are the Tokarev in 7.62 or 9mm (get rid of the worthless safety!), Beretta 951 9mm, and Polish Radom 9mm.

[DaveTN]

15 minutes ago, tntnixon said:

I lust after high gloss “old school” bluing . I can’t even find a custom refinisher who’ll even do it , now. They can cerakote or “name your spray on finish” in matte so much quicker and easier , that they won’t even take the time , at any price , to replicate what used to be the norm .

High Gloss hot blue is still available, but costs $200-$300 for a handgun. I had a local guy that did it for much less because I did all the prep and polish, but I don’t guess he is doing it anymore because I gave a few people his contact info and I never heard anything back.

 I thought about doing it after I retire, but it requires an FFL and doing several guns at once. I can’t get an FFL where I live.

[tntnixon]

I assume you are dead set on a new one, as many are, but have you considered trying a vintage Colt instead?

I haven’t. I started shooting other platforms once I got my first sig.


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[gregintenn]

A 51 Remington or 1908 Colt would fit most of your criteria, except I gather you'd like a larger caliber than 380 acp.

[tntnixon]

A 51 Remington or 1908 Colt would fit most of your criteria, except I gather you'd like a larger caliber than 380 acp.

Every now and then I’ll throw my little sig in my pocket or my cz 82 on my waist (I love that pistol except it’s finish and caliber) but I prefer 9mm and above.


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[DaveTN]

I don’t want much… a thin (Don’t really care how long the barrel is) semi-auto Tupperware gun that has at least 10 rounds of .357 Mag. 

[tntnixon]

I don’t want much… a thin (Don’t really care how long the barrel is) semi-auto Tupperware gun that has at least 10 rounds of .357 Mag. 

See, we want the same thing except I want it in metal that weighs the same as Tupperware . I’m the don quixote of shooters . Lmao


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