Church Discussion

[OH UNCLE PAUL]

6 hours ago, Raoul said:

And therein is the problem with religion. Human interpretation.

I'll be up front here and admit that I do not regularly attend church.  

Having said that. One has to take into account the translation from language to language the Bible has gone through. In addition the time span of the writings. Words can take on different meanings over the years in a single language, much less the same word meaning different things in the same language but different countries at the same time. Fag is a perfect example of this. In England it's a cigarette, something entirely different here.  

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, res308 said:

And I myself have fallen short many times on the rightly dividing the word of truth. I need to get back to studying more. I must admit that there are times when I find myself wishing that the language was more clear on certain subjects. "

I forgot to mention that in a lot of cases I've heard people use the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" to justify their refusal to raise a hand against another in defense, or to justify their condemnation of others for doing so. From what I have read, this was another instance of "lost in translation" where it concerns the language used in the KJV, where it was sort of "old english." I believe the literal translation into current English is "you shall not murder." From what I've read, the word "kill" was used in old english to refer to murder, and the word slay was also used in some contexts, as in "slay the enemy" for example, which was not referring to murder. In other words, the same God who commanded not to murder also sent his people out to kill the enemy. I need to research that again.

The "Ten Commandments" are the law and the law doesn't apply to the Saints. It's purpose was to spell out sins in the eyes of God.

Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law [which is works] there shall be no flesh justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

Romans 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God."

Romans 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through out Lord Jesus Christ:"

Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

 

[E4 No More]

Dang! We gett'n preachy up in here!

[n0rlf]

It can be argued that the purpose of the military is to enforce s political decision. At times that decision may indeed be about defending our country though. 

[Raoul]

14 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

It can be argued that the purpose of the military is to enforce s political decision. At times that decision may indeed be about defending our country though. 

Historically it's also been about dividing our country.

[Grunt67]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

I'd begin my conversation by asking everyone in the room the purpose of our country's military. I assume the common answer would be to protect our country. If that is indeed the case, I'd suggest that if one has no problem protecting one's country via force if necessary, then I wouldn't expect him to have a problem doing the same for himself or his family.

If I had a family, I would protect them before myself or my country. I served in the Army in 'Nam & have two shot up legs, feet to show for it. Now's the time to defend my own castle.

I had no problem defending either at the time.

[peejman]

2 hours ago, res308 said:

And I myself have fallen short many times on the rightly dividing the word of truth. I need to get back to studying more. I must admit that there are times when I find myself wishing that the language was more clear on certain subjects. "

I forgot to mention that in a lot of cases I've heard people use the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" to justify their refusal to raise a hand against another in defense, or to justify their condemnation of others for doing so. From what I have read, this was another instance of "lost in translation" where it concerns the language used in the KJV, where it was sort of "old english." I believe the literal translation into current English is "you shall not murder." From what I've read, the word "kill" was used in old english to refer to murder, and the word slay was also used in some contexts, as in "slay the enemy" for example, which was not referring to murder. In other words, the same God who commanded not to murder also sent his people out to kill the enemy. I need to research that again.

KJV is close, but if you want to do it right, learn Ancient Greek. 

We talk about this routinely in my Sunday school class. With 4-6 people we normally have at least 3 translations and we often discuss how one word can have a huge impact on how we interpret a specific passage. The class leader often brings out the Ancient Greek words for key points in the text which sometimes clarfies and other  times confuses.  

I've only recently started going to Sunday school, and I've really enjoyed it.  I know several of you guys enjoy history stuff as well, if so you should check out this type of Bible.  I've found it fascinating.  

https://www.christianbook.com/niv-zondervan-study-bible-hardcover/9780310438335/pd/438335?event=ESRCQ

I also recently attended a men's Bible study at my neighbor's house who is the pastor of a church nearby (not where we go).  It was a program called "Resolute" and was pretty good.  It addressed many issues men face today and how hard it can be to "be a man" in modern society.  A man's role is provider and protector, among others.  You can't do either of those if you're dead because you didn't fight back when you needed to.  

 

[n0rlf]

1 hour ago, Raoul said:

Historically it's also been about dividing our country.

Again, perhaps the ultimate political position of some. 

[gregintenn]

I envy those of you who have a place you can have an honest discussion of a religious nature without someone becoming a total jerk if everyone doesn't totally agree with them.

[n0rlf]

6 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I envy those of you who have a place you can have an honest discussion of a religious nature without someone becoming a total jerk if everyone doesn't totally agree with them.

Easy for me as I am fairly agnostic. My thoughts tend more towards treat people nice, until they prove themselves unworthy, then dispatch them quickly. 

Seems as of the world's problems could be handled by people doing until others and just plain acting morally and ethically. You do your thing and I do mine. Don't bother me and I shall return the favor. 

Bring religion of any kind in it d you will get wars. Thousands of years of history would seem to back up that thought. 

[A.J. Holst]

19 hours ago, Raoul said:

So reconcile  Matthew 5:39.

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
 

Perhaps the slap refers to your brothers and sisters sinning against you. 

A good example would be bearing false witness or coveting your stuff.

Not a physical attack, but an attack none the less.

It may also refer to the fact of worldly punishment for sin is no longer prescribed and man is no longer required or asked by God to cover up the sin as in the Old Testament

Edited April 17, 2018 by Gotthegoods

[SWCUMBERLAND]

10 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I envy those of you who have a place you can have an honest discussion of a religious nature without someone becoming a total jerk if everyone doesn't totally agree with them.

EVERY faith has its zealots, sorry to say.

I kinda like how it gets dodged in some places. The comedian Gabriel Iglesias described how he did a show in Saudi. The religious cops woulda whaled the Fluffysnot out of him  if he had performed his set in Riyadh. The show was set up OUTSIDE the city in a giant tent. What religious cops did attend apparantly left their badges, clubs and attitudes back in the city, and all got to enjoy that universal antidote to hate:

LAUGHTER.

SWC

[Steelharp]