Another Ridiculous "What Would You Do" Question

[Guest Astra900]

I was in the grocery store last night. There was a seriously crazy looking fellar walking around. Okay, maybe he wasn't crazy, and he was just Fugly, and can't afford surgery.

It got me mind to wandering later when I got home:

You're in a grocery store lets say. A man comes in, and starts shooting up the place. You are armed legally, and instead of engaging him, you set up defensive behind the meat cooler, keeping you and your wife's butt covered, until the crisis has abated. Now someone sees you with your gun, and after the dust settles and the police realize you are legal, and you have nothing to do with any of the crime at hand, you are free to walk. The person that seen you, lost a loved one in the exchange, and decides to sue you for not taking action. Their claim that had you not have run and hid you could have saved the life of their loved one.

Do they have a leg to stand on? Is there some "good samaritan law BS" that you could be charged with in some obscure stretch of the law, that well paid lawyers are good at doing?

I know if you see a crime and fail to report it you can face penalties, but that would not apply here. Just curious, because in a scenario like that, I know my priorities; my wife and myself. If he approaches us, I shoot first and ask questions at the hearing, but other wise, I'm a duck and cover kind guy. I leave the hero crap to someone else.

Maybe I have too much free thinking time:D

[Guest jackdog]

Yes you do there is nothing in the law that says you have to engage in the defense of another. Matter of fact I do not see how it would ever even get to court. I carry to protect myself and family. Others have the same option, if they choose to be sheep that is there tuff S**t.

[Guest pjblurton]

I'm a duck and cover kind guy.

Well, I'm a mind your own damn business kind of guy...

I take cover, guard my wife and family and if he comes my way, good night Irene!

If this scenario held any water, you could just as well sue the people that are suing you for not protecting themselves and not shooting the guy before he got to you, causing you to have to shoot the man.

[Guest Astra900]

That's the way I see it, but you read about so many insane law suits that actually win, and ruin people's lives.

There's a local grocery store less than a 1000 yards from here, maybe I should ask about a delivery service:biglol: J/K

[Guest Phantom6]

Be aware that even an off duty cop is not required by law to respond to such an incident. Regardless of what the law says however, there is nothing in the world that prevents you from being sued over just such an incident as you describe. I'm sure that as sad as it is to ponder, there is some sleaze-bag atty. somewhere that would take just such a case knowing that the case would go nowhere, simply for the retainer coughed up by the distraught client. This causes you to retain an attorney, respond to court documents, have your privacy violated for no good reason, loose a day or two of work and cause your blood pressure to rise unnecessarily. Motions will fly between both law offices and the judge will probably either sink your advisory's case prior to actually going to trial based on a motion filed by your atty. but that is time, money and worry on your part that in most cases you can not recover.

That being said, stay behind the meat counter and do nothing unless you and yours are directly threatened by the man and/or you know that you can take the shot without hitting an innocent bystander. If you shoot him and stop the threat, you can be assured that the roaches....er, ah..... I mean relatives on his side are going to come out of the woodwork to sue you as well because "he was just plumb crazy and had no idea what he was a doin'. You should have waited and let a professional like a cop that's not some some trigger happy, gun totin' carry permit holdin' John Wayne type handle the situation cuz they coulda' talked him down and got poor ol' La Dorian the help he needed". Worse yet if you shoot an innocent in the exchange and they go to the great beyond you are looking at a manslaughter charge.

Well hell, "I could be screwed either way" you say. Yup. Whoever told you that life was fair lied to you.

Most importantly you and yours are alive to tell the story though.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Phantom6

[The Average Joe]

Maybe I have too much free thinking time:D

Yes...WAY TOO MUCH.

[Guest tedbo]

Yup,if I was in that position I would sue the dipstick for gross stupidity and order him/her to go jump into the gene pool for failing to go thru the training and mindset required to protect a family member.

Turning in the man card is also a requirement.

[Fallguy]

You have no legal duty to act, so not sure what grounds they would have to sue you on.

[Warbird]

Yup,if I was in that position I would sue the dipstick for gross stupidity and order him/her to go jump into the gene pool for failing to go thru the training and mindset required to protect a family member.

Turning in the man card is also a requirement.

I certainly have no desire to force anyone to carry a firearm if they are not comfortable or for many other reasons may wish not to. It is their risk. I have no idea what I would do in that situation.

You are under no obligation to put yourself in the line of fire to take them out of it, just because you are armed. As was said you do not want to shoot an innocent and in a real situation with the heart pounding and adrenaline flowing it could easily happen.

[Warbird]

Be aware that even an off duty cop is not required by law to respond to such an incident. Regardless of what the law says however, there is nothing in the world that prevents you from being sued over just such an incident as you describe. I'm sure that as sad as it is to ponder, there is some sleaze-bag atty. somewhere that would take just such a case knowing that the case would go nowhere, simply for the retainer coughed up by the distraught client. This causes you to retain an attorney, respond to court documents, have your privacy violated for no good reason, loose a day or two of work and cause your blood pressure to rise unnecessarily. Motions will fly between both law offices and the judge will probably either sink your advisory's case prior to actually going to trial based on a motion filed by your atty. but that is time, money and worry on your part that in most cases you can not recover.

That being said, stay behind the meat counter and do nothing unless you and yours are directly threatened by the man and/or you know that you can take the shot without hitting an innocent bystander. If you shoot him and stop the threat, you can be assured that the roaches....er, ah..... I mean relatives on his side are going to come out of the woodwork to sue you as well because "he was just plumb crazy and had no idea what he was a doin'. You should have waited and let a professional like a cop that's not some some trigger happy, gun totin' carry permit holdin' John Wayne type handle the situation cuz they coulda' talked him down and got poor ol' La Dorian the help he needed". Worse yet if you shoot an innocent in the exchange and they go to the great beyond you are looking at a manslaughter charge.

Well hell, "I could be screwed either way" you say. Yup. Whoever told you that life was fair lied to you.

Most importantly you and yours are alive to tell the story though.

As Fallguy stated they have no standing. That doesn't preclude you from ever being sued, but really it seriously limits the chance.

Unless you are some ultra wealthy person what is there to gain?

Attorneys do not take on the prosecution of a civil suit with a retainer. It is all contingency. Many large law firms also take on the administrative costs of the suit including court costs, depositions etc. Why because they are pretty sure they can win the case or a decent settlement. They win they get 30% plus their admin costs. Smaller firms will take a contingency case, but the client has to pay admin costs as they occur.

Likely suing you would look to an attorney like a huge waste of their time and possibly their own money. And despite what common thought is, being an attorney is no guaranteed road to fortune. Most of them work a ton of hours and take a lot of sh*%&y cases dealing with a lot of other people's squabbles in order to make a living.

[Angus]

As the spouse of a legal assistant, anyone will try to sue anyone else for anything they feel they are entitled to. Yes, there are jacka** attorneys that will take on these cases just to milk said ignorant client of a few buck probably. Civil law sucks, and sucks huge.

[memphismason]

Lets take this a step farther.

What if the "crazy guy" starts methodically shoting people, men, women, and children, all most execution style.

My Human side kicks in, and I decide to take action, and the "crazy guy" has his back turned to me, and I put a few Remington Golden Saber .45acp round into his back.

I would think that I would be justified in the shooting because I was in fear of my life, even though I shot him in the back.

Discuss

[Guest db99wj]

Lets take this a step farther.

What if the "crazy guy" starts methodically shoting people, men, women, and children, all most execution style.

My Human side kicks in, and I decide to take action, and the "crazy guy" has his back turned to me, and I put a few Remington Golden Saber .45acp round into his back.

I would think that I would be justified in the shooting because I was in fear of my life, even though I shot him in the back.

Discuss

IANAL:rolleyes:, but you were acting on behalf of someone else, someone else was in fear of their lives and you are justified in your actions.

[G27]

Lets take this a step farther.

What if the "crazy guy" starts methodically shoting people, men, women, and children, all most execution style.

My Human side kicks in, and I decide to take action, and the "crazy guy" has his back turned to me, and I put a few Remington Golden Saber .45acp round into his back.

I would think that I would be justified in the shooting because I was in fear of my life, even though I shot him in the back.

Discuss

This is one of the few situations where I'd be 'the hero', so to speak. Dude starts going after kids and it's on - I'll die in order to take him out if necessary.

Otherwise, I'm low and away...

[Fallguy]

Lets take this a step farther.

What if the "crazy guy" starts methodically shoting people, men, women, and children, all most execution style.

My Human side kicks in, and I decide to take action, and the "crazy guy" has his back turned to me, and I put a few Remington Golden Saber .45acp round into his back.

I would think that I would be justified in the shooting because I was in fear of my life, even though I shot him in the back.

Discuss

I would agree.

[memphismason]

Because if this "crazy guy" had exhibited a lack of concern for the human life, then there is no reason that I should feel safe.

[Guest jdavis]

i am not trying to hijack your thread but i do have a qeustion that kind of pertains to yours, if someone does come into a store and starts fireing but never fires in your direction , you feel that you have to do something, you fire and take his life is there a chance you will be convicted of murder, for trying to protect yourself and family?

[Fallguy]

i am not trying to hijack your thread but i do have a qeustion that kind of pertains to yours, if someone does come into a store and starts fireing but never fires in your direction , you feel that you have to do something, you fire and take his life is there a chance you will be convicted of murder, for trying to protect yourself and family?

To simply answer your queston, Yes...there is a chance All-be-it an infinitecimal one.

I don't think any resonable person, would find it unreasonable that you feared for your life (or at the very least the life of a 3rd person) in that situation.

[G27]

Maybe we should ask Patrick to step in here, but I thought the law stated that you could act in defense of your or another's life you felt was endangered...

[Fallguy]

Maybe we should ask Patrick to step in here, but I thought the law stated that you could act in defense of your or another's life you felt was endangered...

I'm not Patrick, but yes, the law says you can use force to defend a 3rd person just as if it was yourself.

39-11-612 Defense of third person.

A person is justified in threatening or using force against another to protect a third person, if:

(1)

Under the circumstances as the person reasonably believes them to be, the person would be justified under §

39-11-611

in threatening or using force to protect against the use or attempted use of unlawful force reasonably believed to be threatening the third person sought to be protected; and

(2)

The person reasonably believes that the intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

Notice the term reasonable again.....

[Punisher84]

Yea you can still claim 3rd party self-defense. In that situation I'd be utterly flabbergasted if the Chief of Police didn't pin a medal on you. There are plenty of situations where shooting someone in the back would be justified. They could have a gun on your wife, kids, or another citizen.

[Punisher84]

I'm not Patrick, but yes, the law says you can use force to defend a 3rd person just as if it was yourself.

Notice the term reasonable again.....

Damn your quick. It's bookmarked isn't it?

[Fallguy]

Damn your quick. It's bookmarked isn't it?

I do at home....but I'm at work right....just have it memorized too.

[Punisher84]

I do at home....but I'm at work right....just have it memorized too.

LOL. Yea I just got home. I got jacked up at work. Lortab FTW

[Guest jdavis]

i had read the law but didnt know how to interperet the third party thing, i didnt know if that situation would fall into the third party column, i have been told that third party would be a family member? i would consider third party anyone who needed help.