Bump Stocks

[peejman]

16 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I’ll admit that I haven’t read that whole “Rule making process”.

Having said that... so some ATF agent decides that although a bump stock clearly violates the intent of the law it doesn’t violate the letter of the law and then puts their “stamp” of approval on it.

Then a Prosecutor somewhere decides to charge someone with violating the law. The Prosecutor sends the case to a Judge that decides using a bump stock violates the law. What happens here? Does the decision of the Judge stand or does a BATF agent have the power to trump the authority of a Judge?

And… are we supposed to be terrible gun owners because we see that the bump stock clearly violates the intent of the law to outlaw automatic weapons and don’t have a problem with banning it? The whole 2nd amendment is doomed and all our guns are going to be taken away because an ATF agent made a decision he clearly didn’t have the mental capacity to make?

More or less what @Omega said. I don't think a suit would ever get to a judge because the law is clear (for now) that bump stocks are legal.  I'd guess the only entity that could be sued is the ATF itself, and  I'm surprised no one has yet. 

I'm sure the ruling on bump stocks wasn't handled by a single person. There's likely several layers of internal review prior to publishing a rule. My guess is the ATF couldn't find a way to disallow them within the letter of the existing law. Disallowing them would certainly have resulted in a law suit, and at that time, I presume they concluded it wasn't worth the aggravation. After all, killing people is already illegal. 

[Fourtyfive]

So as I understand it, the DREADED BUMP STOCK is illegal in the state of Florida. To even have in possession? So it can’t even be in your home?

[DaveTN]

33 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

So as I understand it, the DREADED BUMP STOCK is illegal in the state of Florida. To even have in possession? So it can’t even be in your home?

 I have only seen the news reports; not the law. But I haven’t seen any mention of any being grandfathered.

[Grunt67]

On 3/7/2018 at 10:37 PM, Johnny Rotten said:

I can tell

 

 

Same here.

[scooter]

On 3/13/2018 at 9:17 AM, DaveTN said:

 I have only seen the news reports; not the law. But I haven’t seen any mention of any being grandfathered.

See Florida SB 7026:

"Section 13. Effective October 1, 2018, section 790.222, Florida Statutes, is created to read:

790.222 Bump-fire stocks prohibited.—A person may not import into this state or transfer, distribute, sell, keep for sale, offer for sale, possess, or give to another person a bump-fire stock. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree ..."

There is no grandfather clause. Starting October 1, 2018, being in possession of a bump stock is a felony in Florida.

[Grunt67]

Yet another reason to stay the heck out of Fla.

I have zero use for a bump stock. Sold my AR, have no plans for another.

They don't fit my Walther PPQ or PPS.

Still, it's yet another little piece of the 2ND we don't need to lose. Like the old saying, " how did the calf eat the grindstone?, one bite at a time "

The Libs continually wait for just such an opportunity. They never let a disaster go to waste.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Grunt67

[Flyboy]

What we need is a News channel to show how you can shoot a Automatic Weapeon doing a bump stop and show that it can be done with or without the product.

Then You might change some minds, But they arn't going to do it.

I feel that if we tell the Dems that we would raise the age to 21 to buy automatic weapons to include Changing the vote to 21, they will not pass the law.

Then we can reflex onto them that they ant't anti gun to save lives if they lose votes!!!

[scooter]

On 3/21/2018 at 4:44 AM, Flyboy said:

What we need is a News channel to show how you can shoot a Automatic Weapeon doing a bump stop and show that it can be done with or without the product.

Then You might change some minds, But they arn't going to do it.

I feel that if we tell the Dems that we would raise the age to 21 to buy automatic weapons to include Changing the vote to 21, they will not pass the law.

Then we can reflex onto them that they ant't anti gun to save lives if they lose votes!!!

Semi-automatic weapon! Also, given the current anti gun jihad, showing that a semi-automatic firearm can be bump fired even without a bump stock on national TV would just lead to more support for banning semi-automatic firearms.

We have lost this fight as we were betrayed by the NRA. The NRA is the very organization that could put out educational videos and run them on national TV, educating the American public on lawful gun ownership. What did we get? The NRA supporting banning bump fire stocks and Dana Loesh's culture war videos with zero pro-gun content. Yeah, we got the "clenched fist of truth". LOL.

By the way, The Military Arms Channel already made such a video on YouTube. It is probably about to get banned with YouTube's new anti gun policies, because educating the public with facts is just dangerous.

We can tell the Democrats all we want, it's the Republicans that are betraying us and negotiate away our rights. If you think that we have somehow the power to blackmail the Democrats with the voting age, you are wrong.

Remember that one from last year's NRA convention?:

 

[Erik88]

Well, Trump has put an end to the bump stock.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/23/trump-administration-bans-bump-stocks-all-devices-that-turn-legal-weapons-into-machine-guns.html

 

[mikegideon]

Oh no! Just when I was getting ready to replace all my Magpul stocks. Pisses me off that they would ban ANYTHING. Just glad it was something that I wouldn't use for free. I know... just the beginning. 

So, I will reword. At least it's a law I won't have to ignore.

[DaveTN]

18 hours ago, mikegideon said:

Oh no! Just when I was getting ready to replace all my Magpul stocks.

[Fourtyfive]

Knew it was coming.....what’s next?

[Chucktshoes]

For all of those throwing up the “no big deal, I don’t care” flag, how many of y’all have AR “pistols”? This exact same reasoning would easily and quite logically apply to a reversal of prior rulings that declared AR/AK/CZ Scorion/whatever utilizing a brace/buffer tube as pistols instead of a short barrel rifle. 

[DaveTN]

17 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

For all of those throwing up the “no big deal, I don’t care” flag, how many of y’all have AR “pistols”? This exact same reasoning would easily and quite logically apply to a reversal of prior rulings that declared AR/AK/CZ Scorion/whatever utilizing a brace/buffer tube as pistols instead of a short barrel rifle. 

And probably will when something happens to bring attention to it. I bought a pistol lower and a complete pistol upper that’s not a SBR according to the ridiculous ruling of an ATF agent. If I have to get rid of it or break it up I will, I’m not going to pay NFA taxes; but it won’t be a complete loss.

[TripleGGG]

Knew it was coming.....what’s next?

One piece at a time. Reminds me of that saying, slow and steady wins the race.

[Omega]

Well, there goes another piece of the cake.  Just one more slice that I'd have to keep on the down low if I had one.

[mikegideon]

2 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

For all of those throwing up the “no big deal, I don’t care” flag, how many of y’all have AR “pistols”? This exact same reasoning would easily and quite logically apply to a reversal of prior rulings that declared AR/AK/CZ Scorion/whatever utilizing a brace/buffer tube as pistols instead of a short barrel rifle. 

The NRA backed away from this because they believed (I assume) that it would be impossible to defend to sane people outside our group. A "pistol" with a functional stock that is called something else would be hard to defend too. So... I don't own any. In my feeble opinion, "a reasonable person would believe" is a good test for lots of things.

It's easy to defend an AR-15. Bump stocks, not so much. So far, there is only one proven practical use for them, and it was 100% evil. 

[mikegideon]

52 minutes ago, Omega said:

Well, there goes another piece of the cake.  Just one more slice that I'd have to keep on the down low if I had one.

It's not like you would have to lock it in an offshore vault. Probably fine if you just didn't wear it to the gun show.

[Johnny Rotten]

1 minute ago, mikegideon said:

It's not like you would have to lock it in an offshore vault. Probably fine if you just didn't wear it to the gun show.

The fine is a unregistered MG

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

And probably will when something happens to bring attention to it. I bought a pistol lower and a complete pistol upper that’s not a SBR according to the ridiculous ruling of an ATF agent. If I have to get rid of it or break it up I will, I’m not going to pay NFA taxes; but it won’t be a complete loss.

It ain't that effective. My guess is that somebody could shoot someplace up with a "pistol" and they may not call it anything but an AR-15 on CNN. 

The bump stocks on the Vegas rifles actually increased the death tolls over regular AR-15's (only because accuracy didn't matter). An SBR won't do any better than a carbine.

[mikegideon]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

The fine is a unregistered MG

You're right. DEFINITELY shouldn't wear it to the gun show.

[Omega]

2 hours ago, mikegideon said:

It ain't that effective. My guess is that somebody could shoot someplace up with a "pistol" and they may not call it anything but an AR-15 on CNN. 

The bump stocks on the Vegas rifles actually increased the death tolls over regular AR-15's (only because accuracy didn't matter). An SBR won't do any better than a carbine.

I'm not convinced that the bump stock made it anymore lethal than with a standard semi.  Maybe because he had little to no training in ARs, but if it were someone with training, I'm sure they could have hit more, many more. If he had put more thought into it, he could have trained at the elevation and distance he wanted to engage at, chosen a heavier caliber and done much more damage.

He had the $, he could have purchased an NFA in .308, which would have really made these anti-gun brains implode.  Imagine if they knew that with just $200, plus the price of the weapon anyone could get a true automatic.

[gr8smiles]

So, I’ll preface this with....I’m asking for a friend....
If one had several of these bump stocks, what is the best thing to do with them?
1) gunbroker
2) sell them on here in the classifieds
3) bury them in the yard
4) mail them to CNN
5) put them in the boat that has all my other guns that might sink in the next storm
6) raffle them at a Friends of NRA event
7) any other ideas?

Again, just asking for a friend

[Omega]

I'd put them away, not post them and let everyone know I had them.

[gr8smiles]

I'd put them away, not post them and let everyone know I had them.

I don’t have any. I was really asking for a friend who was asking me.