Bump Stocks

[Fourtyfive]

A channel 4 reporter just stated that bump stocks turn ordinary guns into automatic machine guns. Get the story right channel 4!

[Garufa]

There often is a fine line between technicalities and realities.

[DaveTN]

It’s kinda like arguing an AR isn’t an assault rifle. You may be technically correct; but not many people are going to care.

[Hozzie]

5 minutes ago, Garufa said:

There often is a fine line between technicalities and realities.

This.  From 100ft away, if one was using a bump stock and shooting, could you tell it was a bump stock and not a true full auto?  I doubt most could without closer inspection assuming one is using it as they are intended.  

Edited March 7, 2018 by Hozzie

[Omega]

A layman couldn't tell if I was using a bump stock, a stick, shoestring, belt loop, or just my finger to simulate auto fire.  That does not make it an auto, a technically?., sure, but news should be technical about their stories.

[Johnny Rotten]

5 hours ago, Hozzie said:

This.  From 100ft away, if one was using a bump stock and shooting, could you tell it was a bump stock and not a true full auto?  I doubt most could without closer inspection assuming one is using it as they are intended.  

I can tell

 

 

[Sunfish]

I have never understood why they are so concerned with the rate of fire anyway. I also wonder what it would have been like if the 1935 firearms act had never came along. Wow a MAC 10 or Thompson in every pick-up truck. This along with free Ninja Kawasaki's and all the wine you could drink would definitely improve the quality of life for the survivors  

[FUJIMO]

13 hours ago, Fourtyfive said:

A channel 4 reporter just stated that bump stocks turn ordinary guns into automatic machine guns. Get the story right channel 4!

I watch the local news for the weather and traffic. I feel thats the last couple segments the large corporations that own them won't corrupt with their liberal BS.

[MPGlock]

I watch the local news for the weather and traffic. I feel thats the last couple segments the large corporations that own them won't corrupt with their liberal BS.

I think Mr Gore already corrupted the weather with the whole global warming thing...apparently every thunderstorm in Jan is now a sign that we’ve truly destroyed Mother Nature. I’ll give him a little credit, seeing as how he invented the in-ter-net and all!! [emoji13]


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[Omega]

7 hours ago, MPGlock said:

I think Mr Gore already corrupted the weather with the whole global warming thing...apparently every thunderstorm in Jan is now a sign that we’ve truly destroyed Mother Nature. I’ll give him a little credit, seeing as how he invented the in-ter-net and all!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And Barry was well on her way to destroying the traffic data as well for her rail system.  Quite a bit of traffic stories coming out of Nashville.

[m16ty]

With all the talk of banning bump stocks, the latest plan seems to be to label them as machine guns. Gun rights groups are already threatening to sue, and they will probably win, because bump stocks do not fit the definition of a machine gun. I can see where this is headed, they classify bump stocks as machine guns, the courts strike it down, and that leads to a sweeping semi-auto ban because they will claim that is the only way to get rid of the deadly bump stocks.

These gun groups better be careful what they wish for, it may end up being that we have to give them the bump stocks to keep from having a new AWB or worse. In the courtroom of public opinion, we've already lost the bump stock debate, I fear at this point we need to cut our losses and try to make sure bump stocks are as far as it goes. I tend to think that is what Trump has on his mind, give them the bump stocks and maybe make some changes to the background check system, and all the screams for more gun control will die down. 

[Chucktshoes]

 

 

[DWARREN123]

It is amazing how the press and people in general just do not know about firearms.

The big news commenters/TV/Hollywood people and politicians have no idea what the heck they are talking about!

[Will Carry]

Read  this with a heavy North Jersey accent:

"It shoots a heat seeking bullet that can shoot down an airplane!" "It should only be used by the Army!" (She is talking about the single shot Barret 50bmg)

"We need to restrict the sales of magazines. When their magazine runs out of bullets they won't be able to buy new magazines." "They would be out of bullets!" (She thinks magazines come preloaded and when you run out of ammo, you have to buy a new magazine}

Those are dumb things said by politicians who are writing gun laws. Moral Busybodies. I think C.S. Lewis wrote this to be kind of tongue and cheek, half joking and all true.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Will Carry

[Erik88]

7 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

 

 

Elections have consequences...

[DaveTN]

3 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Elections have consequences...

Absolutely. And if Trump hadn’t been elected they would be banning AR’s instead of bump stocks.

[Chucktshoes]

12 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Absolutely. And if Trump hadn’t been elected they would be banning AR’s instead of bump stocks.

I don’t think so, and for the same reason that nothing happened after Newtown, or Aurora, or any of the incidents that happened while Obama was in office. When a D is in the White House, the Rs in Congress have to prove their conservative cred by standing in opposition. When there is a R in the White House (even if he is really a life long New York liberal), maybe a little more regulation ain’t so bad, right? It happened here in TN. Look at what was able to be accomplished with Bredesen as Governor and look at how the progress came to a screeching halt as soon as Haslam took office. 

[peejman]

All that's necessary to ban bump stocks is for the ATF to change the rules. There is no legislation or voting inherent in that process. The ATF publishes proposed rule change for public comment. Then they publish a final rule. "Public comment" doesn't mean anything anyone says will cause them to modify the proposed rule, its merely the time period in which they're obligated to accept comments. They are in no way obligated to act on those comments.  

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations

 

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

All that's necessary to ban bump stocks is for the ATF to change the rules. There is no legislation or voting inherent in that process. The ATF publishes proposed rule change for public comment. Then they publish a final rule. "Public comment" doesn't mean anything anyone says will cause them to modify the proposed rule, its merely the time period in which they're obligated to accept comments. They are in no way obligated to act on those comments.  

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations

 

I’ll admit that I haven’t read that whole “Rule making process”.

Having said that... so some ATF agent decides that although a bump stock clearly violates the intent of the law it doesn’t violate the letter of the law and then puts their “stamp” of approval on it.

Then a Prosecutor somewhere decides to charge someone with violating the law. The Prosecutor sends the case to a Judge that decides using a bump stock violates the law. What happens here? Does the decision of the Judge stand or does a BATF agent have the power to trump the authority of a Judge?

And… are we supposed to be terrible gun owners because we see that the bump stock clearly violates the intent of the law to outlaw automatic weapons and don’t have a problem with banning it? The whole 2nd amendment is doomed and all our guns are going to be taken away because an ATF agent made a decision he clearly didn’t have the mental capacity to make?

[Omega]

28 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I’ll admit that I haven’t read that whole “Rule making process”.

Having said that... so some ATF agent decides that although a bump stock clearly violates the intent of the law it doesn’t violate the letter of the law and then puts their “stamp” of approval on it.

Then a Prosecutor somewhere decides to charge someone with violating the law. The Prosecutor sends the case to a Judge that decides using a bump stock violates the law. What happens here? Does the decision of the Judge stand or does a BATF agent have the power to trump the authority of a Judge?

And… are we supposed to be terrible gun owners because we see that the bump stock clearly violates the intent of the law to outlaw automatic weapons and don’t have a problem with banning it? The whole 2nd amendment is doomed and all our guns are going to be taken away because an ATF agent made a decision he clearly didn’t have the mental capacity to make?

I would think that the prosecutor would first have to prove that it violated the law.  In order for this to break the law, it would have to fire more than one round per pull of the trigger.  Only way for them to "fix" it, is to define a cyclic rate that equals "auto", which would have to be faster than anyone could possibly pull the trigger with no assistance.  Because if you want to go the route of "intent", then there goes any weapon those in power want to "tax", or make nearly impossible to transfer/own, which the ATF's own page says is the intent.

[btq96r]

2 hours ago, peejman said:

All that's necessary to ban bump stocks is for the ATF to change the rules. There is no legislation or voting inherent in that process. The ATF publishes proposed rule change for public comment. Then they publish a final rule. "Public comment" doesn't mean anything anyone says will cause them to modify the proposed rule, its merely the time period in which they're obligated to accept comments. They are in no way obligated to act on those comments.  

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations

 

This is the real problem.  Congress doesn't want to be bothered with the details, so they just delegate authority to the agencies.  Very neat and tidy for a group that needs time to fund raise throughout the year, but it's the root of the issues we tend to get from ATF.

[Erik88]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Absolutely. And if Trump hadn’t been elected they would be banning AR’s instead of bump stocks.

I actually laughed when I read this. Who is "they"? You're suggesting the GOP controlled congress would have passed a new AWB together with Hillary? 

[Omega]

45 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I actually laughed when I read this. Who is "they"? You're suggesting the GOP controlled congress would have passed a new AWB together with Hillary? 

Maybe not the total GOP, but how many would it take to cross the aisles?  And there are already precedents of using a federal agency such as the IRS to pressure groups, so no doubt it would continue.  IRs imposes high ammo tax, EPA ban lead bullets, OSHA imposes powder and ammo storage requirements...I have no doubt they would push harder, since they had already started doing it.

[Sunfish]

Bump stocks are good at making a lot of noise and ammo disappear but I don't think there is one thing evil or sinister about them. The trouble with surrendering things as a bargaining tool will eventually lead to the anti's having all the cards. We are slowly being assimilated to the tune of one to many amazing coincidences. The timing is way to good for this to be totally random acts  

[Wingshooter]

13 hours ago, Erik88 said:

I actually laughed when I read this. Who is "they"? You're suggesting the GOP controlled congress would have passed a new AWB together with Hillary? 

The thing is Crooked Hillary would be even “crookeder” if she had won. Who knows how many legislators’ lives she would have threatened, blackmailed, intimidated or houses burned down to get her way. Thank God she did not win, or who knows the path we would be on right now.