Guns? What Guns?

[Guest canynracer]

that scenario is something that you do not have a say in, and you are not a part of. If God is doing the cleansing, you cannot help that.

now, if MAN is doing it, he is gonna need help. ... I am NOT suggesting what will, may or may not happen...but I dont THINK it will, on either side, so this is really a moot point.

I guess when the time comes, we will know, and act according to our individual convictions at that time.

[Guest Rick O'Shay]

Y'all please watch where you are heading with this line of thought. Believe it or not but stuff ends up in places where you don't want it to go, and this isn't tin foil hat BS either.

NRAforlife was very correct on this one. I posted some pictures of a job I was on about a year ago on a forum similar to this, but of a different topic. About a week later I was called into my boss's office to explain about the pictures our client found through a simple internet search. It was pretty embarrassing I assure you.

As to the inevitable gun grab: Personally, to paraphrase Zell Miller, I think my country left me when they voted in a radical Socialist to the office of the presidency. While the slide into Socialism began with FDR, it sure is picking up speed now. We here, and other sites of like mind, talk amongst each other of the Constitution, the various Amendments, the Founding Fathers, Concord and Lexington, and fighting for our God-given rights while so many out there on Leftist sites like Democratic Underground, Progressive Exchange, the Daily Kos, Glocktalk, Mike Malloy, the Huffington Post, etc. all speak about we crazed "NeoCons" and "Gun-nuts". Meanwhile the vast majority of current day America really doesn't give a Rat's Hindquarters about their Constitutional rights; they are wondering how much they will be able suck from the National teat.

Much as the late 19th to early 20th century immigrant flood from Eastern Europe and Italy changed the political make up of the Midwest and Northeast forever, the current illegal immigration flood will be changing the political landscape of the South forever.

Frankly, I think we already lost the country of our youths, but it up to the historians to pinpoint the date I reckon.

Much as I would love to see a hard shift to the right in our culture; I believe we just saw the last major political adjustment in our country. The Socialist's are too well entrenched in the Propaganda Ministry of the People's Democratic Party (the media), in labor, and in the Indoctrination Camps (schools). All else we do is merely a holding action.

I can't see anything else reversing this seemingly inevitable slide, because the Left has a major advantage over us. We actually believe in Democracy, Freedom of Speech, and the Right to Bear Arms, while they don't believe in any of that. We believe in fair play; they believe that the "ends justify the means." We are in an unfair fight gentlemen, and ladies.

My prediction: The global slide Leftward will continue for some unknown amount of time until, through global nationalization of resources and production, the world economy will suffer a total collapse where wars and starvation are rampant, and then new, now unheard of, nations will rise and our current view of international boundaries and politics will be seen as "quaint".

But then again, I hope I am wrong.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Rick O'Shay

[Oh Shoot]

...

My prediction: The global slide Leftward will continue for some unknown amount of time until, through global nationalization of resources and production, the world economy will suffer a total collapse where wars and starvation are rampant, and then new, now unheard of, nations will rise and our current view of international boundaries and politics will be seen as "quaint".

But then again, I hope I am wrong.

You aren't wrong, except maybe for the reasons for the collapse.

The makeup of US Government just really doesn't matter in the long run.

Somewhere around the birth of our 5 billionth humanoid, the die was cast. We're due for a big kill off. Has to happen, upside down pyramids can't teeter forever.

It's really an environmental issue, but will be translated into and seen as economics. We've overdriven the planet's resources by far, and of course the American environmental footprint, both individually and collectively, is the largest on earth.

I'd venture that a mere depression comparable to the 30's would snuff about 20% of US population over 5-7 years, but that's still not enough fleas for the earth to shrug off, so I'd expect it to be significantly worse than that, and world wide too, of course. I don't know if national boundaries will change much, but the population density within those boundaries certainly will.

Is this the beginning of it? No way to know. But it will probably look quite similar at the onset to what we're seeing now.

- OS

[Guest Rick O'Shay]

You aren't wrong, except maybe for the reasons for the collapse.

The makeup of US Government just really doesn't matter in the long run.

Somewhere around the birth of our 5 billionth humanoid, the die was cast. We're due for a big kill off. Has to happen, upside down pyramids can't teeter forever.

It's really an environmental issue, but will be translated into and seen as economics. We've overdriven the planet's resources by far, and of course the American environmental footprint, both individually and collectively, is the largest on earth.

I'd venture that a mere depression comparable to the 30's would snuff about 20% of US population over 5-7 years, but that's still not enough fleas for the earth to shrug off, so I'd expect it to be significantly worse than that, and world wide too, of course. I don't know if national boundaries will change much, but the population density within those boundaries certainly will.

Is this the beginning of it? No way to know. But it will probably look quite similar at the onset to what we're seeing now.

- OS

Nah! We are probably 50 years off, barring any major technological breakthrough on energy production.

[Oh Shoot]

Nah! We are probably 50 years off, barring any major technological breakthrough on energy production.

No way to know.

Continued erosion of living standards over 50 years could be a reasonable estimate. Or we could lose billions of us in the next 5-10.

Science is really our only hope, but generally, scientific breakthroughs are too expensive in the short term to benefit the masses. Indeed, the efficiency and automation of modern production is one of the reasons that human life is decreasing in economic value, as it takes fewer of us to create more product each year, yet there are increasingly fewer people who can afford that product. So people become less "valuable" as both producers AND consumers.

But the core components remain food, water, and fuel. These may well become as scarce due to distribution problems based on failing regional economies as from actual shortages of the substances themselves.

- OS

[Mike.357]

Frankly, I think we already lost the country of our youths, but it up to the historians to pinpoint the date I reckon.

January 30, 1968

[Guest SUNTZU]

The Tet offensive?

[Guest nraforlife]

January 30, 1968

Earlier than that - Feb. 12, 1809, Hardin County, Kentucky

[Mike.357]

The Tet offensive?

exactly Daniel. While opinion against the war was strong before that date once Tet started it really went off the board.

It has basically been a liberal heyday ever since with a brief respite when

The Gipper was in office.

[G27]

Earlier than that - Feb. 12, 1809, Hardin County, Kentucky

Who could have guessed this date would be the beginning of the end of the 10th Amendment?

[Daniel]

+1, not to mention that there will be several officials and officers that will simply refuse the order. Hopefully several state governments will do the same. Hope our Govenor has a set.

I am not worried about a gun grab, but I fear the tax spike in Ammo costs...there ARE things they CAN do...

I remeber buying cigarettes for 1.25 a back...for brand name....now we are just under 5 bucks here, and well on the way to 7 bucks a pack in CA and some other states.

I dont think it will be the big things like the grab, or SN on ammo...no, it will be subtle...

ammo maker will LOVE the initial profits, and welcome the price increases...then they will hate it when nobody is buying...see gas prices.

same with reloading supplies.

next fairly easy thing is your privileage to carry.

I paid that for a pack of newports in NYC back in 2000.

[Guest canynracer]

yeah, that is the last time I bought smokes in CA...so it may be higher now...not sure

[Guest HexHead]

Funny that John Edwards popularized the phrase "Two Americas", but that is clearly what the answer is going to be. Ironically, maybe the Republicans need to become the part of secession?

Let the "Blue States" have their own little secular-progressive socialist utopia and leave the rest of us the **** alone.

If it takes another civil war to get us there, fine.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Maybe we could just put signs up surrounding blue areas saying "ABANDON HOPE, ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE."

[Guest nraforlife]

Maybe we could just put signs up surrounding blue areas saying "ABANDON HOPE, ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE."

Frickin Zombies

[memphismason]

Thinking that a door to door "gun grab" can not happen is crazy.

Now "if" it will happen is another story....but in this day and age anything is possible, especially when our gooberment is involved.

[Mike.357]

yanno, I been reading this thread and since an earlier post then staying out of it. It has gone off on a path or two better left off of message boards.

At any rate, this is not going to jump from potentially closing the gun show loop hole or and AWB to kicking in our doors at 3AM in one fell swoop. Things tend to ratchet up bit by bit.

[memphismason]

MARTIAL LAW

INTERESTING FACTS

• Martial law is defined as: military rule or authority imposed on a civilian population when the civil authorities cannot maintain law and order, as in a time of war or during an emergency.
  
• Hitler turned Germany into a Nazi dictatorship through executive orders.
  
• Executive Order 10995: All communications media are to be seized by the Federal Government. Radio, TV, newspapers, CB, Ham, telephones, and the internet will be under federal control. Hence, the First Amendment will be suspended indefinitely.
  
• Executive Order 10997: All electrical power, fuels, and all minerals well be seized by the federal government.
  
• Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. You will not be allowed to hoard food since this is regulated.
  
• Executive Order 10999: All modes of transportation will go into government control. Any vehicle can be seized.
  
• Executive Order 11000: All civilians can be used for work under federal supervision.
  
• Executive Order 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of "emergency."
  
• Executive Order 12919: Directs various Cabinet officials to be constantly ready to take over virtually all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency at the direction of the president.
  
• Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to take control over all government agencies in time of emergency. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government.
  
• Executive Order 12656: "ASSIGNMENT OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS RESPONSIBILITIES", "A national emergency is any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States. Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President." This order includes federal takeover of all local law enforcement agencies, wage and price controls, prohibits you from moving assets in or out of the United States, creates a draft, controls all travel in and out of the United States, and much more.
  
• Martial law can be declared due to natural disasters, Y2k Crisis, Stock Market crash, no electricity, riots, biological attack, .... anything leading to the breakdown of law and order.
  

[memphismason]

yanno, I been reading this thread and since an earlier post then staying out of it. It has gone off on a path or two better left off of message boards.

At any rate, this is not going to jump from potentially closing the gun show loop hole or and AWB to kicking in our doors at 3AM in one fell swoop. Things tend to ratchet up bit by bit.[/quote]

That is being hopefull.

We all need to understand that it might not happen, or it might happen over a slow progress or it may happen overnight through the President declaring Marshal Law...might, might, might.

I like to be prepared for the worse

[Oh Shoot]

...or it may happen overnight through the President declaring Marshal Law...

America doesn't have enough Marshals to do it.

- OS

[G27]

We all need to understand that it might not happen, or it might happen over a slow progress or it may happen overnight through the President declaring Marshal Law...might, might, might.

I like to be prepared for the worse

That's fine, but you have to be realistic.

If I may point back to my own post: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=218386&postcount=58

And that's assuming the FFL holders don't have 'mysterious fires' wiping out their paper copies if a gun-grab is ordered.

I think we should be prepared for the worst, but I also think we have to have realistic expectations of what the worst can physically even be...

[memphismason]

That's fine, but you have to be realistic.

If I may point back to my own post: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=218386&postcount=58

You make good points as to show why a gun grab would not be a success. I am not saying it would be successful, I would hope once word spreads, people who start to stand up........but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

Being realistic is considering all angles, anything less is being nieve.

I am not calling you that, just pointing out that we need to be prepared for the worse, just in case, and pray to God that the worse won't come about.

But putting our foot down and say Nope, it can't happen!....is not smart.

I mean no offense to you personally or anyone, my statements are meant in general.

[memphismason]

I think we should be prepared for the worst, but I also think we have to have realistic expectations of what the worst can physically even be...

Nazi Germany was pretty damn bad.

[G27]

You make good points as to show why a gun grab would not be a success. I am not saying it would be successful, I would hope once word spreads, people who start to stand up........but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

Being realistic is considering all angles, anything less is being nieve.

I am not calling you that, just pointing out that we need to be prepared for the worse, just in case, and pray to God that the worse won't come about.

But putting our foot down and say Nope, it can't happen!....is not smart.

I mean no offense to you personally or anyone, my statements are meant in general.

Oh, no offense taken - prohibition alone is proof the government can attempt really stupid, impossible things.

I just think that in today's world, with instant communication available, they're going to be more sly.

[memphismason]

I just think that in today's world, with instant communication available, they're going to be more sly.

Being more sly is worse, I think.