This is why you keep shooting!

[Omega]

This video shows why you keep engaging the threat until the threat stops, or you run out of bullets.  Notice how the perp has been hit, at least twice but still gets one of the guns and attempts to shoot one of the clerks.  This ended well for the clerks, but it could have gone sideways very quickly.  He should of been dropped when he turned the corner after they armed themselves.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/24/watch-mother-daughter-in-gun-fight-with-shotgun-wielding-robbery-suspect/

Edited February 25, 2018 by Omega
Speeling

[Omega]

Even ABC covered it 

 

[peejman]

Wow. 

Looked like the daughter fired at least once while the BG was wrestling with her mom. 

I need to practice retention. I hope they get some training. 

[KahrMan]

He was shot 4 times and survived. 

[Omega]

30 minutes ago, KahrMan said:

He was shot 4 times and survived. 

Which brings up the questions; where was he shot and what bullet type and caliber were used?  

[charlessummers]

Makes me think I need to reconsider if a 5 round revolver is enough, or if a 17 round Glock is too much. It seems as if she was trying to "empty the gun" not only to disable her attacker, but also so when the gun was forced from her hands, he couldn't use it to kill her or her daughter. I'm glad everyone was ok... except for the perp. I hope he spends a LONG time in lockup.

 

[Garufa]

13 minutes ago, Omega said:

Which brings up the questions; where was he shot and what bullet type and caliber were used?  

It’s obvious he was not shot with a .45 as he did not drop dead on the spot.  Mama was using some kind of revolver, so .38 or .357.  Can’t make out what daughter had.

[Wingshooter]

Did the daughter shoot the guy in the back while he was wrestling the mother? Good thing her caliber didn’t pass through. 380 for the daughter... maybe a 25? Hard to tell

[Omega]

22 minutes ago, Wingshooter said:

Did the daughter shoot the guy in the back while he was wrestling the mother? Good thing her caliber didn’t pass through. 380 for the daughter... maybe a 25? Hard to tell

Yea, I seen her take a couple questionable shots, lucky thing for the mother there was no passthrough, but the fact that she kept engaging is to be commended. 

[seez52]

the mama's gun didn't look like it recoiled very much, wonder if it wan't a .22 or 22 mag

[Wheelgunner]

At about 1:00 into the video, the robber goes out the door.  At that point, the mom is aiming the revolver at the door, and the daughter gets out her phone to call for help.

This was way too early to call for help. The women had no basis for believing they were safe enough to make a phone call at this point.  Jarrod Reston discusses this issue in a 2 hour long lecture (available to watch in another TGO thread).  Reston says that a key factor in winning gunfights is staying in the fight mentality longer than the other guy. One of my takeaways from Reston's lecture is that by the time you have to fire your weapon, using the phone is a bad idea.

About five seconds after the bad guy appeared to leave, these two armed women could have taken aim with their two weapons at the door and prepared to hose any threat that appeared.  Instead, one of them got on the phone - reducing their fighting power by half.  Similarly, later in the video you see one of them still holding the phone while the bad guy is physically attacking the other.

I'm not knocking these ladies; they did their best and survived.  But given five seconds' lull in the fight, there are better options than using a phone.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Wheelgunner
Spelling

[Erik88]

I know this is going to sound really harsh, but that was painful to watch. Those ladies need more training, a lot more. The daughter is incredibly lucky she didn't shoot her mom. The mom is incredibly lucky her gun was empty when it was taken from her. I've told my wife many times over the years that shooting someone once with your .380 likely won't do. Keep shooting until the threat is down. 

[Omega]

2 hours ago, Erik88 said:

I know this is going to sound really harsh, but that was painful to watch. Those ladies need more training, a lot more. The daughter is incredibly lucky she didn't shoot her mom. The mom is incredibly lucky her gun was empty when it was taken from her. I've told my wife many times over the years that shooting someone once with your .380 likely won't do. Keep shooting until the threat is down. 

I've seen people continue to fight after 7.62, so no caliber is immune to having a perp continue the fight.  In a life and death situation, the trick is to fight until there is no fight left in your opponent.

[Mr.Mildot]

This is how people who are 1. Untrained and 2. Panicking, act in this type of situation.  

My advice to anyone (including myself) is to train a ton, then train some more, in any way you can...because when it comes time to use deadly force, you will probably be in the most frightening situation you have ever experienced and you're only hope will be to react in the way you have trained to because you wont be thinking clearly, won't be able to problem solve and fine motor skill will be out the door.

Training in martial arts or boxing are useful, not only for the hand to hand combat skills but to become accustomed to dealing with aggression being directed at you by another human.  This guy practically intimidated the old lady into giving up her gun...she was scared and negotiating with him when she should have been pumping him full of lead.

[Whisper]

While we can point out many things that these two women did wrong, or did without adequate skill, they scored an A on the three most important things:

1.  Have a gun.
2.  Be willing to use it.
3.  No matter what happens, keep fighting.

I would argue that, while they made many mistakes, the fact that they got the most important things right is responsible for their victory.

Cheers,

Whisper

[Erik88]

I'm going to have to disagree here. Nearly being executed with your own weapon, and only being spared because it was empty, is not what I'd call a win. That's damn near the worst possible scenario. I applaud their bravery but this could have easily ended in disaster. 

[Omega]

3 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I'm going to have to disagree here. Nearly being executed with your own weapon, and only being spared because it was empty, is not what I'd call a win. That's damn near the worst possible scenario. I applaud their bravery but this could have easily ended in disaster. 

No, it is a decisive win.  When you can walk away from a fight, it is a win. 

[DaveTN]

I saw them interviewed a couple of times on FOX. A man armed with a shotgun entered their store and robbed them. They shot him and caused him to drop the shotgun. The continued to shoot him. The mother fired until she knew her weapon was empty. The only injure either of them suffered was a cut to the Moms hand when the dirt bag ripped her empty gun from her hand.

Other than the perp still being alive; this ended well. Good for them; this was a win. Train all you like; that's a good thing. But you still have no idea how you will perform in a confrontation with an armed criminal.

 

[peejman]

An ugly win is still a win. When the dust settles, they don't ask how, just how many. 

[FrankD]

3 hours ago, Omega said:

No, it is a decisive win.  When you can walk away from a fight, it is a win. 

Agree 100%, you can train as long as you want and there is still no way to guarantee how you will react in a situation until it happens.  Could this have been a "cleaner", "safer", or more textbook altercation, we can all agree YES.  But the two women fought and won, another bad guy locked up and hopefully a message to others like him that not all citizens are sheep.

[A.J. Holst]

I too keep thinking about the Reston video.

Handgun bullets do weird things in a human body and meat hits don't take folks out of the fight.

Critical, non-CNS hits give the perp a few more seconds to try to kill you.

If I primarily carried a 5 shot snub, I'd practice a lot...doubtful I'll have time to reload.

I would probably keep shooting until they were longer in my sight picture.

[jgradyc]

They're the only staff in a liquor store... at night... and their firearms are under the counter... and they appear to be a .38 special snubnose and a .380 of some kind... not a lot of firepower.

I'm guessing that both these women will be upgrading their handguns in the future and hopefully getting some training.

[Ski]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:56 AM, Mr.Mildot said:

Training in martial arts or boxing are useful, not only for the hand to hand combat skills but to become accustomed to dealing with aggression being directed at you by another human.  This guy practically intimidated the old lady into giving up her gun...she was scared and negotiating with him when she should have been pumping him full of lead.

I have not seen any of the interviews with the victims, but I wonder if the mother did not feel justified in shooting him when he was "unarmed".  Was that addressed in any of the interviews they gave?

[DaveTN]

10 hours ago, Ski said:

I have not seen any of the interviews with the victims, but I wonder if the mother did not feel justified in shooting him when he was "unarmed".  Was that addressed in any of the interviews they gave?

No, he was armed with a shotgun. He dropped it when she shot him. She continued to fire as he came after her. She knew the gun was empty when he took it.

These two women obviously did a good job. They just didn’t have the proper tools to end this quickly.

[Ski]

32 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

No, he was armed with a shotgun. He dropped it when she shot him. She continued to fire as he came after her. She knew the gun was empty when he took it.

These two women obviously did a good job. They just didn’t have the proper tools to end this quickly.

I saw the shotgun at the beginning.  I wasn't counting shots, so I did not realize her gun was empty by the time the robber reappears and confronts the mother.  Glad it ended fairly well.