School Shootings

[Fourtyfive]

My feelings....

Stop the gun control ideas, it’s the Devil in the heads of the deranged or just generally depressed. I think we all know what’s killing our children, other children with guns.

All I hear is gun control, it’s really security to stop the gun holder that is needed. If the school system can not afford law enforcement than let’s use the National Guard. Why can’t we use them or Military members on a rotating or permanent basis to watch over our children. Even if we need to use the most qualified target shooters (which I’m happy with) they could be all over the school house. Would our kids think they were in a military compound? I don’t think so from their recent uprising (which I respect). Tell me if you see a problem with my view, I can take it. So can the kids from what I am hearing.

They need security, we have it, let’s try to deliver it.

 

[Fourtyfive]

Wow, not one word here. I don’t think I have ever posted a post that didn’t get a response. Was my post that stupid or just meaningless? You can agree to disagree.....I work in the school systems, a few of them, that is why I ask.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fourtyfive

[xsubsailor]

One word............

 Just joking of course, I think everyone else is watching the "Another Shooting" thread in general chat.

BTW, your idea does sound pretty good.

[Fourtyfive]

It was just a common place idea. Does it make sense, yup. Is there a better plan, nope.Sorry but I only have one grandchild at the moment, and I will make sure she is protected if I have to do it myself.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fourtyfive

[Fourtyfive]

It’s ok, if one word is all you have, I will listen....

[Oh Shoot]

19 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

It was just a common place idea. Does it make sense, yup. Is there a better plan, nope.Sorry but I only have one grandchild at the moment, and I will make sure she is protected if I have to do it myself.

There are about 130,000 elementary and high schools in the US, so this would take about a third of of NG total force presently, assuming you mean just one guy per school.

Since the vast majority of the NG hold down normal day to day jobs, it would be quite the trick to be able to "mobilize" them on some sort of an ongoing staggered basis from now on.

- OS

[Fourtyfive]

This is where we give them a break on the WEEKEND a month and add military personnel. It could be done, unless Kim Jun rears his ugly head in a week or two. I’m planning for it. And no I mean 10 per school.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fourtyfive

[Fourtyfive]

There is only one way to defer the demented, total security. Only one way out. Military.

[Oh Shoot]

12 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

...And no I mean 10 per school.

All the NG in the US would only add up to about 3 per school.

- OS

[Fourtyfive]

 

Then we should take them brother. Beats the Hell out of what we got now.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fourtyfive

[Omega]

How about us retired military folks willing to step up and volunteer our services?  I am sure we easily outnumber the NG.

[SWCUMBERLAND]

If it got made into a law, I would wonder if Posse Commitatus would be in the mix somehow.

Use ALL the resorces, Heaven knows all will be needed. 2-3 per week briefings with the local cops about potential bad'uns, preferably with recent photos. And if there HAS to be rotation between sites limit it as much as possible.

Oh... and grandparents.

From THE WEST WING:

 

Jed: Don't ever, ever underestimate the will of a grandfather. We're mad men. We don't give a damn. We got here before you and we'll be here after. We'll make enemies, we'll break laws, we'll break bones but you will not mess with the grandchildren.

 

Completely accurate.

 

SWC

 

 

 

[Hozzie]

I actually completely disagree with placing Military or anyone else in schools. Teachers want to carry, fine, but the fact is we cannot afford to do it with NG or any other government force. Asking vets to do it is ok, but reality is that isn’t free either.

 

The fact is still that these events are extremely rare and statistical anomalies. I realize that it isn’t politically correct to say that the reality is that people die every day for a variety of reasons that cannot be controlled. If you can control them, there is a cost and that cost has to be weighed against the value it brings. I will probably upset some here, but a life, any life does have a value. It drives me crazy when people say no cost is too high. Yes there is a cost too high, unless you are spending other people’s money.

 

All we should be doing is what brings the most value to the issue. Certainly better cooperation and sharing of mental health data. That doesn’t cost much. Certainly more reactivity to leads on people with issues. That doesn’t cost a lot.

 

This idea of putting NG or the Military in schools is just as much of a jump to “do something, anything” vs using logic. I am not willing to pay significantly more to do this as it does not make sense financially no matter how emotional one wants to get over it.

 

If you want to see how important this truly is ask people to voluntarily donate to a national fund for providing security to all schools. I bet you end up with less than $5000 per school. That isn’t changing things.

 

[Omega]

29 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

I actually completely disagree with placing Military or anyone else in schools. Teachers want to carry, fine, but the fact is we cannot afford to do it with NG or any other government force. Asking vets to do it is ok, but reality is that isn’t free either.

 

The fact is still that these events are extremely rare and statistical anomalies. I realize that it isn’t politically correct to say that the reality is that people die every day for a variety of reasons that cannot be controlled. If you can control them, there is a cost and that cost has to be weighed against the value it brings. I will probably upset some here, but a life, any life does have a value. It drives me crazy when people say no cost is too high. Yes there is a cost too high, unless you are spending other people’s money.

 

All we should be doing is what brings the most value to the issue. Certainly better cooperation and sharing of mental health data. That doesn’t cost much. Certainly more reactivity to leads on people with issues. That doesn’t cost a lot.

 

This idea of putting NG or the Military in schools is just as much of a jump to “do something, anything” vs using logic. I am not willing to pay significantly more to do this as it does not make sense financially no matter how emotional one wants to get over it.

 

If you want to see how important this truly is ask people to voluntarily donate to a national fund for providing security to all schools. I bet you end up with less than $5000 per school. That isn’t changing things.

 

My idea is to allow trained personnel, such as vets, off duty LEO, and civilians to volunteer their services.  Will there be a cost, a little, but only to run training/testing, and vetting volunteers.  The NRA and Industry partners can be solicited to run free training, as most know, once you take one class, you want more.  Of course, it won't happen...TPTB need the turmoil.

 

[Fourtyfive]

I must say, it’s not a “do something anything”. I don’t have the answer, but give me a better one. Everyone wants an end to all; this is my best.

[Sunfish]

Sadly it will continue. Half baked idiots are the problem. We cant supervise and medicate them all.   

[Whisper]

As I said in the other thread,  I believe the answer is in hardening the schools, And but I don't think it takes overwhelming military force at any individual school.  Psychos shoot up schools because they know schools are soft targets.  The SRO idea is the right response, but there should be more careful selection of SROs -- the position should be treated as serious duty, and not a place to park worn-out officers who are no longer fit for patrol and who need a place to fill out their last year before retirement.  It's not a suitable position for an officer who will be afraid to engage a threat, like the SRO in Florida last week.  The SRO should be visible at the school throughout the day, should be mobile and not sitting at a desk at the front entrance all day, and should mix with and build a relationship with the students.  If kids see that the officer is friendly and concerned about their welfare, that increases the chance they'll say something to him if they know another kid is about to go off the rails.

My kids are all past school age now, but at the high school they attended, there was one SRO who rotated among three (maybe more) high schools; some days he was there and some days not, and all the kids knew that he was not there to protect them -- his main interest was catching kids with weed, which was emphasized by the fact that he drove a DARE vehicle. All tactical errors.

SROs don't even have to be sworn officers -- we guard nuclear plants with serious well-trained personnel who are committed to the task of protecting the facility where they're stationed.  Our schools deserve at least that much.

My thoughts, and worth every cent you paid for them,

Whisper

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Whisper

[tnhawk]

The use of the National Guard would place additional demands on their budgets which are presently thin.  The soldiers would be affected by their loss of pay and time away from full time employment.  Teachers who are familiar with the school and students would be a better choice.

Edited February 24, 2018 by tnhawk

[chances R]

I am in agreement with Hozzie on this.  First military operations/training is different than goals.  Also I don't get this idea that suddenly military personel are experts in small arms.  Limited exposure for most.  Some may have extensive exposure, but even out of those you are going to have limited availabilty. The occurrance of a shooter is rare...equivilant to a possible lightening strike.  Volunteer teacher/employee carry is the answer IMO.  Also it is akin to routine personnel carry in public; for emergency use only and rare that it is needed.  Proper firearm usage and training would be required.  However the teachers are not a response force, they are simply a reactionary self-defense purpose when one exhausts the Run.....Hide.....and then to the last resort FIGHT that is being taught.

[DaveTN]

12 hours ago, Fourtyfive said:

Wow, not one word here. I don’t think I have ever posted a post that didn’t get a response. Was my post that stupid or just meaningless? You can agree to disagree.....I work in the school systems, a few of them, that is why I ask.

Well I think most everyone has stated their opinions in the other threads.

 However…. This problem will be fixed. We will find out that having trained Police Officers and the technology required to keep our schools safe is not cost prohibitive. We won’t need to use HCP holders, security companies, or military veterans. It will happen when parents and school boards quit playing the odds.

Odds are that 99.9% (I just made that number up on the spot) of us will never have to use deadly force; but that doesn’t stop us from carrying. What is more important than protecting our children? The answer is nothing; if we need money we will take it from somewhere else that is less important.

People are having discussions everywhere right now that will impact us all. We need to be involved.

[AuEagle]

How Israel prevents school shootings.

 

https://www.westernjournal.com/israel-2-school-attacks-44-years-heres-make-sure-kids-safe/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=blackwell&utm_campaign=can&utm_content=2018-02-22