Property line legal question

[Mamba]

Don't know if there are any real estate lawyers in the house but:

We've a contract on a house with a bit of land. Problem is, looks like an out-building included in the deal may be over the neighbor's property line. Current owner and neighbor are on good terms so it's not been a past issue, but now that they are selling said property it may be a snag. Sellers are paying for a survey and agreed to pay X amount to either move or destroy the out-building, but I'd hate to lose it or have to pay any extra $ to move it. So the question is, can we and the neighbor draw up any kind of gentlemen's agreement if it's on their property? If so, what happens when they die/move/etc? In general, just looking for advice, options.  Tx!

 

[Raoul]

Get a survey and move it if it encroached on to the neighbor property. 

[gregintenn]

Yes. Technically, all sorts of easement agreements can be added to a deed, but I sure wouldn't recommend it. Could you purchase the property the building is sitting on from the neighbor?

[RED333]

Depends on codes, some codes state you can not build X feet close to a property line. Or as Greg posted, ask to buy the bit of land.

[Omega]

A written agreement will be ok, but only while the current owner maintains ownership.  The best bet is to move it, it's a permanent solution. 

[monkeylizard]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

A written agreement will be ok, but only while the current owner maintains ownership.  The best bet is to move it, it's a permanent solution. 

This, but if the neighbor is fine with it being there, then that at least buys you some time before you have to eat the expense of moving it.

[DaveTN]

You need to talk to a lawyer in your area. Sometimes failure to act when property is in dispute can cause transfer of it regardless of what the survey shows. The laws aren’t fair or just; they are just the laws.

[peejman]

If you value the outbuilding and it's not easily moved, I'd talk to the neighbor about buying the property it's sitting on. Otherwise move it or scrap it.

[JAB]

These things can be really strange.  I am NOT suggesting the following as a solution as I think it is kind of underhanded - I am simply providing an real life example (to the best of my recollection - I was a kid when this happened and my parents are now both deceased so I can't ask for specific details) regarding the complex nature of such things.

When I was a kid - think very early 1980s - my parents purchased a plot of land.  Turned out that the people who lived next door to said land had put their fence up far inside the property line, thereby taking some of the land my parents had purchased - land which included a really nice apple tree.  My parents pointed out that their fence was inside my parents' property line and asked them nicely to move the fence.  They refused.  Well, the whole thing went to court and the judgement was that, as the folks who put up the fence had been using that land and had the fence in place for X number of years, it became theirs.  Sort of like squatters rights, I suppose.  My parents would have basically just been screwed out of some of the land they purchased except that the person from whom they purchased the tract of land lived on the other side.  Being an honest sort he made up for the land they lost on one side of the property by giving them an equal amount on the other side.  Their purchase of the land was complete and had been for about a year or so by that point so he probably didn't have to do so but he did.  Now, as I said that was dang near 40 years ago so laws, etc. might have changed but the bottom line is, if laws are still more or less the same, a case could possibly be made that if the outbuilding has been on that property for X number of years the land now belongs with the tract you are purchasing.  Once, again, I am not saying this is the route to take and I think it would be pretty underhanded - not to mention not exactly getting off to a great start with the new neighbors.  It is more that your case made me think of an interesting story about how screwy property laws can be.

Edited February 21, 2018 by JAB

[JAB]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

You need to talk to a lawyer in your area. Sometimes failure to act when property is in dispute can cause transfer of it regardless of what the survey shows. The laws aren’t fair or just; they are just the laws.

Just saw this post from DaveTN.  My above post is an example of this.

[Omega]

I have been researching Adverse Possession, AKA Squatters Rights, and it is difficult to get something like that done in sub-plotted areas now-a-days.  It's a 20 year possession or 7 years under the "Color of Title" and it has to be taken to court for it to "take hold". 

Some try to do it before realizing all that it takes: https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/no-squatters-rights-in-tennessee

[Grunt67]

18 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Yes. Technically, all sorts of easement agreements can be added to a deed, but I sure wouldn't recommend it. Could you purchase the property the building is sitting on from the neighbor?

Agree, it's a temporary fix at best. Just kicking the can down the road. Do what needs to be done now, & relax.

[TripleGGG]

We are purchasing a house.  Once it clears the home, termite, radon inspection I am getting a survey done before closing.  There are a couple of neighbors fences that are very close to the property line.  I plan on putting up a fence also.  If there are issues I want the current owner to deal with them.

[ReeferMac]

13 hours ago, DaveTN said:

You need to talk to a lawyer in your area. Sometimes failure to act when property is in dispute can cause transfer of it regardless of what the survey shows. The laws aren’t fair or just; they are just the laws.

Yeah, ummm... I'm assuming you have a competent real estate attorney working on your behalf (you should, they're cheap). (S)He can answer the question knowledgeably (hopefully), and aid in drawing up any contracts of easements, or other stipulations, to be notarized, and signed at the closing.

Personally, I would try to avoid the situation as much as possible (purchase the land, move the building, etc.) Just asking for trouble. That's not to say it can't work out, but... 

Just my 2-bits.

[frankmako]

get a survey of the lines.  then have the current owner fix the problems.  it he can not fix the problems that pass the legal test it is time to look at others places to buy.  these type of problems don't go away.  

[DaveTN]

On 2/20/2018 at 6:43 PM, Mamba said:

Sellers are paying for a survey and agreed to pay X amount to either move or destroy the out-building, but I'd hate to lose it or have to pay any extra $ to move it.

So don’t lose it. Just get a quote on moving it and have the seller agree to pay it.

You absolutely need a real estate attorney when closing on a house.

[Mamba]

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully it'll be handled, one way or the other, by the sellers before we close.

[jwinter]

I am a land surveyor so the next line will seem very biased. NEVER buy property without a current survey. It amazes me that people will buy property valued at over 100,000 dollars and pay on it for 30 years and not find out exactly what they own and or if there are any issues. So I obviously suggest that you get the property surveyed and see where you stand. Keep in mind that the building could be on you property but if there is an easement along the line and it is on it, you could "lose" it later if a utility needs to fix an existing line under it.

If it is a platted lot it is simpler to verify what you are buying. If it is unplatted and is just described in a deed you really need to know what you are buying. We had a job in Vonore where a guy from Florida bought what he thought was 60+ acres iper the listed acreage stated at the end of the deed as "60 acres more or less" that ended up being only around 35 acres when surveyed per the description in the deed. To make it even worse is that he paid the seller a per acre price. Worst case scenario I know but you get the picture.

[ReeferMac]

14 minutes ago, jwinter said:

I am a land surveyor so the next line will seem very biased. NEVER buy property without a current survey. It amazes me that people will buy property valued at over 100,000 dollars and pay on it for 30 years and not find out exactly what they own and or if there are any issues.

 

LOL! I bought a chunk of land here in Kingston. Paperwork said: 14.5 acres, deeded 17.2

I asked the attorney at close, the seller, the tax clerk, the realtor.... everyone, nobody could tell me what that mean. FINALLY met the GIS guy at the courthouse, he said someone, somewhere in the past sold that land as "17.2 acres", but when we measure it, it's 14.5. Sigh... I did walk the entire property w/ the seller, he showed me the posts from TWRA that define the corners, and said "it is what it is". They've got higher priced lawyers than you can ever afford, but if you want to fight them on it, be my guest.

That being said, give me a Private Message jwinter, we're getting ready to start building, and the bank requires a recent survey. Apparently it's cheaper if I do it BEFORE the tree's leaf out (wooded lot near Watt's Bar lake in Kingston).

 

- Kevin

[WindHawk]

23 hours ago, Mamba said:

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully it'll be handled, one way or the other, by the sellers before we close.

Mamba, from personal experience "hopefully it will be handled" is not a solution to your problem but is a sure progression to bigger headaches.  Whatever way you chose to resolve the issue be sure it's 100% in place and done before signing any closing documents.  Just my 2 cents.

[TripleGGG]

Mamba, from personal experience "hopefully it will be handled" is not a solution to your problem but is a sure progression to bigger headaches.  Whatever way you chose to resolve the issue be sure it's 100% in place and done before signing any closing documents.  Just my 2 cents.

Definitely