Trump urges ban on 'bump stocks,' other gun modifiers

[TripleGGG]

Can't wait for the Trump supporters to spin this into a win for us or maybe even blame Hillary. 

I don't trust any of them. Actions speak louder than any promise by any of these politicians. I'm an American, not a political pawn piece. Sad we do not have anyone to support.

[Hershmeister]

Even batty Gabby Giffords group says bump stocks are legal

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardware-ammunition/machine-guns-50-caliber/

"Bump Stocks and Trigger Cranks
Additionally, the gun industry has marketed devices such as bump-fire (or bump stock) and trigger crank devices that attach to a firearm and are designed to accelerate the weapon’s rate of fire to rates approaching automatic machine gun fire. These devices skirt the limits of federal law because the federal definition of “machine gun” only applies to weapons that automatically fire multiple rounds with “a single function of the trigger.” Bump-fire devices replace the weapon’s standard shoulder stock and allow the weapon to smoothly slide (or “bump”) back and forth very rapidly between the shooter’s shoulder and trigger finger. By harnessing the weapon’s recoil or kickback, the bump stock causes the trigger to be engaged many times faster than a human could otherwise fire. Trigger cranks attach to a firearm’s trigger guard and similarly enable a shooter to repeatedly pull the trigger in very rapid succession by simply rotating the crank. These devices are marketed as “simulating” automatic fire and are a significant danger to the public. In October 2017, a gunman in Las Vegas used multiple bump fire devices to convert semi-automatic rifles into weapons that fired 9 shots per second. He used those weapons to carry out the deadliest mass shooting attack in modern history. Unfortunately, the sale and possession of these devices is currently legal in most states."


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[SWCUMBERLAND]

No one here, I think, will mistake me for a liberal.

I cannot say, though, in perfect conscience, that I agree with President Trump's latest endeavor after "bump stocks". 

Excerpted from TIME:

“Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machine-guns,” Trump said in a memo.

I'm aware of bump stock physics... Being as they are removable and not going into the innards of the weapon, I don't myself see the problem. My little AR-7 will never need for such a device, and I'd be loath to see it banned for anyone else.

Perhaps I'm whistling in the dark passing a graveyard here, but I see a couple of things that lead me to think that all may not be as grim as some on the left, and, I regret to say, some in this very forum,  hope to see.

Item: if this were to be done quick and dirty, The President could have resorted to using Executive Orders. As far I can tell, he has not.

Item: The wording of the memo is not fully against the items per se. There is still a lot of talking to do.

Item: Trump will be handing this off to the AG. Sessions is not the fastest fellow on the cabinet... he may well still be "more studying" this into the upcoming legislative election cycle.

Item: There are, I think, a not minor slice of  Democrats that would reject a ban proposal, not on the physics, but "It'd make Trump look good" or similar marlarkey.

Item: I'd bet any non-moving money ( Yes, I'm moving to Lynchburg in a couple of weeks ) that the sales of those items, while they are still unregulated, will likely go through the roof. 

SWC

Edited February 21, 2018 by SWCUMBERLAND

[Grand Torino]

7 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Can't wait for the Trump supporters to spin this into a win for us or maybe even blame Hillary. 

I'n neither a supporter or detractor of him or for any politician for that matter. They are all self absorbed and frickin' crazy in my mind. I can't defend this action no matter how stupid and useless bump stocks are but I also can't help but wonder how any of this plays out with that nitwit Hildebeast was in office....just sayin'.

[Wingshooter]

2 hours ago, Grand Torino said:

I'n neither a supporter or detractor of him or for any politician for that matter. They are all self absorbed and frickin' crazy in my mind. I can't defend this action no matter how stupid and useless bump stocks are but I also can't help but wonder how any of this plays out with that nitwit Hildebeast was in office....just sayin'.

Exactly.... we wouldn’t be talking about bump fires. It would be about banning those evil AK15’s and AR47’s just to start. I just hope those things don’t follow still.

[DaveTN]

I have never really been involved with NFA items so I’m not sure how this works. Does the BATF have final say on if something is illegal or not? What if a Judge disagrees with the BATF?

I’m asking because you guys are specifically talking about bump stocks. The NFA outlaws machine guns for private ownership (unless of course you pay the government). Bump stocks are clearly aimed at circumventing that law. For all intents and purposes they turn a semi-auto AR in a full auto machine gun. Now, you can argue legalities and semantics all day long; but a child could figure that out.

Timney, Geissele, and Apex triggers don’t do that and aren’t like a bump stock in any way shape or form.

We all knew when we saw the carnage in Vegas that bump stocks would be dealt with. Now some of you act all surprised and start saying the sky is falling; but I don’t think most of us are surprised by this. Bump stocks violate the intent of the law. If you think you should be able to have a fully automatic weapon (and I do) then get the law changed. But don’t act appalled that someone is actually doing something.

Will the age limit be raised to 21 for rifles? Probably. Will background checks and the system be changed? Probably. Will drug prescriptions and mental health diagnosis become disqualifiers? Probably. Why? Because most voters are good with that.

Will AR-15’s be banned? Doubtful at this time. But as soon as the Dems or regular politicians take back over it will be one of the first things on their agenda.

After all this Russian collusion non-sense is over with what do think these left wing drama queens and the MSM is going to focus on? Guns.

[Erik88]

The anti-gun crowd on Reddit is already criticizing Trump for not doing enough . Poor guy is getting hit from both sides! 

[SWCUMBERLAND]

53 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I

We all knew when we saw the carnage in Vegas that bump stocks would be dealt with. Now some of you act all surprised and start saying the sky is falling; but I don’t think most of us are surprised by this. Bump stocks violate the intent of the law. If you think you should be able to have a fully automatic weapon (and I do) then get the law changed. But don’t act appalled that someone is actually doing something.

Will the age limit be raised to 21 for rifles? Probably. Will background checks and the system be changed? Probably. Will drug prescriptions and mental health diagnosis become disqualifiers? Probably. Why? Because most voters are good with that.

Mental health is already addressed on the FF4473. Not quite as comprehensively as the liberal gun grabbers (pardon, I repeat myself) would like, truth be told.

53 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Will AR-15’s be banned? Doubtful at this time. But as soon as the Dems or regular politicians take back over it will be one of the first things on their agenda.

And then? Either one of their glorious glittering successes, which they can use as foundation for their Radiant Future, or an abject failure, suitable as the rail by which to run them out of office.

53 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

After all this Russian collusion non-sense is over with what do think these left wing drama queens and the MSM is going to focus on? Guns.

Been after them since Oswald. Just more virulent now.

[GlockSpock]

The anti-gun crowd on Reddit is already criticizing Trump for not doing enough . Poor guy is getting hit from both sides! 

Yes, poor, poor Trump. Maybe if he wasn’t needlessly pandering to everyone he would not be attacked by everyone.

Republican House? Republican Senate? Why not just make a polished statement proclaiming that guns are not the issue at hand, and that he will sign no anti-gun legislation while he is in office? Then he wouldn’t be criticized by us over this particular matter. Instead he just went quite far in alienating a large portion of his base.

True colors I suppose.


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[peejman]

12 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I've about decided that it is bad juju for one party to control the house, senate, and the presidency.

I've said that for years. Gridlock is the best option when it concerns the federal government. No action is usually the best action, at least they can't make it worse. 

My guess is the NFA will have to be revised to include bump stocks and binary triggers to accomplish the "ban".  I also won't be surprised to see a proposal to include "high capacity" magazines as well. 

[SWCUMBERLAND]

27 minutes ago, peejman said:

Gidlock is the best option when it concerns the federal government.

When it stays out of the people's business, correct.

27 minutes ago, peejman said:

 at least they can't make it worse. 

Government can ALWAYS make it worse.

27 minutes ago, peejman said:

My guess is the NFA will have to be revised to include bump stocks and binary triggers to accomplish the "ban".  I also won't be surprised to see a proposal to include "high capacity" magazines as well. 

A proposal that will get drowned out in outrage, and rightly so.

SWC

[Chucktshoes]

53 minutes ago, CZ9MM said:

 

Yes, poor, poor Trump. Maybe if he wasn’t needlessly pandering to everyone he would not be attacked by everyone.

Republican House? Republican Senate? Why not just make a polished statement proclaiming that guns are not the issue at hand, and that he will sign no anti-gun legislation while he is in office? Then he wouldn’t be criticized by us over this particular matter. Instead he just went quite far in alienating a large portion of his base.

True colors I suppose.


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I told folks many times from the early on in the election cycle that if you looked at Trump’s history he was an anti-gun liberal democrat. He was a supporter of the Clinton AWB and no friend to the gun owner. I knew this day would come, but you can’t be mad at the scorpion. He is only doing what it was in his nature to do. It’s the frog who should have known better. 

[GlockSpock]

I told folks many times from the early on in the election cycle that if you looked at Trump’s history he was an anti-gun liberal democrat. He was a supporter of the Clinton AWB and no friend to the gun owner. I knew this day would come, but you can’t be mad at the scorpion. He is only doing what it was in his nature to do. It’s the frog who should have known better. 

I agree. In my opinion better than Hillary, but at least with Hillary people knew and would have known what to expect. The enemy you know and what not.

I think Trump realizes that there is a definite line with firearms regarding his supporters. Does/will he care? I suppose that depends on how much longer he has in office and whether he considers it a possibility and seeks re-election.


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[btq96r]

So in roughly a years time...we went from optimism about national reciprocity, silencers coming out from under the auspices of the NFA, and the rest to a Republican President calling for a bump stock ban, and a Republican Congress casually looking the other way?

#Winning

[Erik88]

13 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I told folks many times from the early on in the election cycle that if you looked at Trump’s history he was an anti-gun liberal democrat. He was a supporter of the Clinton AWB and no friend to the gun owner. I knew this day would come, but you can’t be mad at the scorpion. He is only doing what it was in his nature to do. It’s the frog who should have known better. 

You may be right but I have a slightly different opinion. I don't think he hates guns or the 2A. My belief is that Trump's only allegiance is to himself and his brand. He is going to say or do whatever he feels will benefit him the most. As a rich elite in NY it made more sense for him to be a liberal his entire life up until he thought he might have a chance at becoming President. Once he saw the outrage that Obama created he suddenly changed his mind on most topics and declared himself a conservative. I just read that in 2000 he ran as the candidate for the Reform Party and ironically one of his biggest goals was universal healthcare. He also claimed Oprah would be his running mate.  My how times have changed.

[GlockSpock]

So in roughly a years time...we went from optimism about national reciprocity, silencers coming out from under the auspices of the NFA, and the rest to a Republican President calling for a bump stock ban, and a Republican Congress casually looking the other way?
#Winning

#alotoftheantigunlegislationhasbeendonebyrepublicansjustsayingsorrybutitstrueeveryone


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[n0rlf]

2 hours ago, SWCUMBERLAND said:

Mental health is already addressed on the FF4473. Not quite as comprehensively as the liberal gun grabbers (pardon, I repeat myself) would like, truth be told.

I am no liberal and I think it should be dealt with better and more comprehensively. Perhaps stopping more of the mental health problems would stop some incidents. That is what we all want after all. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by n0rlf
Spelling again

[MikeW]

Ok when Bump stocks go... when will the AR15 owners ( and other evil looking firearms e.g. glocks, Ak's, M1A's, etc) be told to cut their firearms in half or turn them into the local PD's?

Will bump stocks, triggers, and other devices that turn a gun into a "machine gun" go in the trash or will they be like the lightning links that went to the NFA registry? I remember when those were sold at gun shows many years ago.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

Ok when Bump stocks go... when will the AR15 owners ( and other evil looking firearms e.g. glocks, Ak's, M1A's, etc) be told to cut their firearms in half or turn them into the local PD's?

Will bump stocks, triggers, and other devices that turn a gun into a "machine gun" go in the trash or will they be like the lightning links that went to the NFA registry? I remember when those were sold at gun shows many years ago.

 

1986 Hughes ban says otherwise, if they went into NFA, the BS, trigger, crank, belt loop, shoe string, etc would become a postie and the average joe couldn't get their hands on it, so my guess they'll be grandfathered in or out right banded.

[Dolomite_supafly]

4 hours ago, n0rlf said:

I am no liberal and I think it should be dealt with better and more comprehensively. Perhaps stopping more of the mental health problems would stop some incidents. That is what we all want after all. 

The problem is not those with mental conditions. We have always had crazy people. Problem is they are convincing normal people that their life sucks but a little pill will fix it. And when they start taking those pills they do crazy things.

[GlockSpock]

2 minutes ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

The problem is not those with mental conditions. We have always had crazy people. Problem is they are convincing normal people that their life sucks but a little pill will fix it. And when they start taking those pills they do crazy things.

Lots of truth to that statement. More true than not I'm afraid. Now nearly anything can be diagnosed as a disorder. Trouble sleeping? Disorder. Trouble staying awake? Disorder. Trouble focusing? Disorder. Staying too focused? Disorder. Unhappy? Disorder. Happy too much? Disorder.

I'm not saying that disorders do not exist; They do. I'm obviously just saying that nearly anyone can go to a doctor and complain about nearly anything and there is a magic pill ready to fix things for them, more often than not with more/more severe side effects than the symptoms it is treating.

[Grand Torino]

41 minutes ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

The problem is not those with mental conditions. We have always had crazy people. Problem is they are convincing normal people that their life sucks but a little pill will fix it. And when they start taking those pills they do crazy things.

Yes there have always been nutjobs but there used to be a bed to put them in...not so much anymore cause well you know...we don't want to place a stigma or embarrass them. Just dope them up and send them out in public to do stupid or even lethal and crazy things. 

Better living through chemistry my butt.....

[Erik88]

The NRA will be participating in a CNN Townhall meeting tonight. I'm sure this will be a fair and balanced conversation..

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/politics/cnn-town-hall-parkland/index.html

[MacGyver]

6 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

The NRA will be participating in a CNN Townhall meeting tonight. I'm sure this will be a fair and balanced conversation..

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/politics/cnn-town-hall-parkland/index.html

It's probably a good preview of things to come.  They're going to be in the crosshairs - and they'll probably signal how they're going to respond from here.

[TripleGGG]

1 hour ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

The problem is not those with mental conditions. We have always had crazy people. Problem is they are convincing normal people that their life sucks but a little pill will fix it. And when they start taking those pills they do crazy things.

Be in my industry.  It will scare the heck out of you when you see what "healthy" people are being prescribed for so-called "disorders".